"The Fuhrer was G Gordon Liddy's first political hero. Liddy was a sickly, asthmatic child when he grew up in Hoboken, New Jersey, in the 1930s. The town was full of ethnic Germans who idolized Hitler. Liddy was made to salute the Stars and Stripes Nazi-style by the nuns at his school; even now, he admits, "at assemblies where the national anthem is played, I must suppress the urge to snap out my right arm." His beloved German nanny taught him that Hitler had -- through sheer will-power -- "dragged Germany from weakness to strength."...
"If any one component of man ought to be exercised, cultivated and strengthened above all others, it is the will; and that must have one objective -- to win." He used to take his kids to see Leni Reifenstahl's Nazi propaganda movie 'The Triumph of the Will.' When he was a kid himself, he went to insane ends to test his will-power. He stood in front of approaching trains, telling himself he would not die because "I am a machine too." During lightning storms, in order to demonstrate to himself to power of his will, he would climb onto tall trees and yell, "Kill me! Kill me!" He even trained himself to kill animals in anticipation of becoming a brutal soldier. He describes beheading chickens with glee: "I killed and killed and killed, and finally I could kill efficiently and without emotion or thought. I was satisfied; when it came my turn to go to war, I would be ready. I could kill as I could run -- like a machine."
Stations include: WWTN-FM, Nashville; KCAA-AM, Los Angeles; WALR-AM, Atlanta; WTNT-AM, Washington DC; WCBM-AM, Baltimore; WTAR-AM, Norfolk, VA; and WAPI-AM, Birmingham.
Where is the outrage over this Hitlerite thug?
Posts: 55 | Location: USA | Registered: 31 March 2005
Hey, Gilded, if you can believe this: Al Franken considers Liddy to be his friend, and has even co-broadcast his radio show with him. I listen to Franken every once in a while because the radio station that broadcasts Thom's show in SF doesn't carry his third hour.
Posts: 101 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: 23 November 2003
NAZIs were socialist/fascists. Both of which require the state control of business and the people which makes them leftist.
Is believing this the only way you can feel comfortable with your beliefs? In fact, fascism (the system which the Nazis operated under) is about the corporate control of government, not the other way around.
here's some homework for you (posted this before, evidently you didn't bother to read it; which is fine, just make you look even more naive)
Okay, here we go, down to the point at last:
quote:
I'm willing to bet that nobody here subscribes to the principles that supported Naziism.
(posted by Cliff, I while back)
Among the principles that supported Nazism are the following (freely after Wiki; posted most of this earlier in this thread):
Keywords, from Wiki with added comment:
Euthanasia and Eugenics with respect to "Racial Hygiene"
Anti-Marxism, Anti-Communism, Anti-Bolshevism
The rejection of democracy, with as a consequence the ending the existence of political parties, labour unions, and free press.
F�hrerprinzip (Leader Principle) Belief in the leader (Responsibility up the ranks, and authority down the ranks.)
Defence of Blood and Soil (German: "Blut und Boden" - represented by the red and black colours in the Nazi flag)
"Lebensraumpolitik", "Lebensraum im Osten" (The creation of more living space for Germans in the east)
Some of these actually frighteningly remind me of present day American politics, if you'll forgive me. The points that do not or do not directly remind me of Bushist Government are the racial hygiene (but there�s always room for more), the outspoken opposition to democracy (again, you never know what�s up next), and the lebensraum thing.
Now, if with �nobody here� you�re referring to the people on this website, you�re probably right. Still I would say that a hell of a lot of people DO believe in the above mentioned principles, more than you would think even.
exalts nation and sometimes race above the individual; okay. Not very socialist, I'd say.
uses violence and modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition. extremely right wing.
engages in severe economic and social regimentation. There you go.
engages in corporatism. Not very liberal...
implements totalitarianism.
Key sentence:
"Fascism developed in opposition to socialism and communism, although some early Fascists were themselves former Marxists. In 1932, Mussolini declared in The Doctrine of Fascism" ]
Woops, IN OPPOSITION! Down you go, baby.
So, time to do your homework, bringemon. Or not. Up to you. It's just that repeating the same flawed statemen over and over and over and over agian doesn't exactly make you look erudite and intelligent. Or interesting, for that matter.
Having a couple of minutes I decided to see what Bringemon uses for "research." I didn't expect for the source to de discredited with an erronous presupposition in the title! " Left-wing Fascism: An Intellectual Disorder" So I thought I'd check out the author, no credentials listed on his list of articles. Looking for the non-stated credentials, I found that this "publication" is David Horowitz's POS rag. "http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/authors.asp?ID=164 After just one illogical self short paragraph with contradicting and qualitfiers, the author states: "Popular encyclopedias such as Funk & Wagnalls lump together Hitler's German regime, Mussolini's Italian regime, General Tojo's Japanese regime and Generalissimo Franco's Spanish regime under the single rubric of "fascist" so it seems clear that it is the accepted wisdom that all four regimes were basically similar and differed only in matters of detail."
Enough time wasted out of my life. No wonder he's so ignorant. BS in running BS out.
People in a religious war project attributes of the human ego into their concept of what God is so they can rationalize killing each other. It’s like two people arguing over who has the best imaginary friend.- Steve Andres Educate - Agitate - Motivate!
Posts: 622 | Location: Rio Rancho, NM | Registered: 26 August 2003
Now I'm going to finish bringemon off for good. And I don't need "discredited" sources.
Let's take the Nurenburg trial documents. Here is a detailed description of Nazi industrialist Krupp von Bohlen building the Nazi war machine:
"He [Krupp von Bohlen] personally made repeated public speeches approving and inciting Hitler's program of aggression; on 4/6/1938 and 4/7/1938 two speeches approved annexation of Austria; on 10/13/1938 he publicly approved Nazi occupation of the Sudetenland; on 9/4/1939 he approved the invasion of Poland; on 5/6/1941 he spoke commemorating the success of Nazi arms in the West....
Large industry like Krupp's plants are maintained as tools for the wealthy to accumulate war loot:
"The services of Alfried Krupp and of von Bohlen and their family to the war aims of the Nazi Party were so outstanding that the Krupp enterprises were [preserved] as a family enterprise in Alfried Krupp's control..."
IG Farben was a chemical corporation whose R&D benefitted the Nazi war machine immensely.
"Farben cooperated with Hitler in his earliest efforts to build up a vast military machine in violation of the Versailles Treaty. This intimate cooperation made it necessary for Farben to work closely with the Wehrmacht [German Army]."
"By 1934, Farben had worked out detailed plans for defending their plants against air raids. In 1935, the Vermittlungsstelle W supervised Kriegsspiele or "War Games," to determine the effect of bombing on certain factories and the speed of replacement, and to train the Luftwaffe in precision bombing. "
Furthermore, there is close cooperation between military and industrial concerns in fascist states, whereby industrial concerns take over the country and use it for personal plunder and looting:
" In the Reichstag election of 11/6/1932, the Nazi Party lost two million votes and 34 seats...."Severe depression prevails *** financial troubles make all organized work impossible ** the danger now exists of the whole Party going to pieces." At the crucial moment, many leading industrialists rallied to the assistance of the Nazis."
Farben, Krupp, and others rallied to support the Nazis after they lost seats in the Reichstage in 1932:
"Hitler had yet to consolidate his dictatorial power by destroying the forces of freedom in Germany before he assaulted freedom in the world.... The special organizations of the Party, such as the SS and SA, were heavy burdens on the Party treasury. Farben made substantial contributions to support and further these activities."
"On the invitation of Goering, approximately 25 of the leading industrialists of Germany, together with Schacht, attended a meeting in Berlin on 2/20/1933. This was shortly before the German election of 3/5/1933. At this meeting Hitler announced the conspirators' aim to seize totalitarian control over Germany, to destroy the parliamentary system, to crush all opposition by force, and to restore the power of the Wehrmacht."
While speaking at this meeting Adolf Hitler said:
" Private enterprise cannot be maintained in the age of democracy; it is conceivable only if the people have a sound idea of authority and personality."
Adolf Hitler further stated at this meeting:
"We must first gain complete power if we want to crush the other side completely....Only when one knows that one has reached the pinnacle of power, that there is no further possible development, shall one strike."
Here is Adolf Hitler in his own words from Mein Kampf:
�But what food did the press of the pre-War period dish out to the people? ...Wasn�t the worst kind of pacifism injected into the heart of our people?....Did it not with its constant attacks undermine the foundations of the state�s authority until a single thrust sufficed to make the edifice collapse? ...Did it not belittle the army with constant criticism...?�
�The activity of the so-called liberal press was the work of gravediggers for the German people and the German Reich.�
What about bringemon's link to David Horowitz's Nazi Frontpage magazine?
Here is what David Horowitz says in his own words in his book The Art of Political War":
" You cannot cripple an opponent by outwitting him in a political debate," he explains, "You can do it only by following Lenin's injunction: 'In political conflicts, the goal is not to refute your opponent's argument, but to wipe him from the face of the earth.'"
Posts: 55 | Location: USA | Registered: 31 March 2005
I don't see how this proves or disproves anything.
" Private enterprise cannot be maintained in the age of democracy; it is conceivable only if the people have a sound idea of authority and personality."
Isn't this the left's pledge of alleigiance?
Posts: 4 | Location: Erf | Registered: 14 February 2005
" Private enterprise cannot be maintained in the age of democracy; it is conceivable only if the people have a sound idea of authority and personality."
Hitler was saying that private tyranny (corporations) is possible only by suppressing the people, and you know it.
You said:
quote:
Corporations reported to the fascist governments
I said:
quote:
"At the crucial moment, many leading industrialists rallied to the assistance of the Nazis."
quote:
"Farben made substantial contributions to support and further these activities [the SA and SS]."
I have directly refuted your statement not once but two times.
What is it that you fail to understand?
Posts: 55 | Location: USA | Registered: 31 March 2005
Message boards all across the web share a common problem that's the result of web forums being such an open venue. That problem is one of members who behave like children.
Very often they actually are children - usually teenage boys. And very often they are suffering from one of a variety of psychiatric disorders. The one thing they seem to have in common is the need for recognition.
To get that recognition, they engage in confrontational and rude behavior - an unfortunate way of shouting "Recognize me!" And, sure enough, on most forums there are people who will recognize/acknowledge them, mistakenly thinking that such folks can be satisfied with a kind word or a subtle rebuke.
The reality is that what satisfies such people is being noticed. Any sort of notice. The best, of course, is if they can make somebody lose their temper or self control. (We've all seen children do this - provoke others and escalate increasingly to try to get a response. As I said...)
Over the 15 or so years that I've moderated forums on Compuserve, we've tried a variety of ways of dealing with such people. Locking them out or cancelling their memberships didn't work - they just joined under a new name and were even worse than before (having now been recognized, which is the oxygen they crave). Chastizing or criticizing them produces the same response. And so long as they haven't used overt obscenity or broken the law, notifying their ISP only rarely works...and even then, some will simply sign up to the web with a new service provider when their old one refuses to sell them a line any longer.
So what we're left with is the same solution that works best with children who are engaging in attention-getting behavior on a schoolyard. Ignore them. Literally - do not mention them, their behavior, or their names. Act as if they totally don't exist.
Raising taxes? Letting SSI go broke? Keeping the poor in poverty? Keeping us relient on foreign oil? Ignore global islamic fascism/terrorism? Blocking minority court appointees? Allowing felons to vote? National Health Care?
Not much there to run on. Guess that's why they are such losers.
Posts: 4 | Location: Erf | Registered: 14 February 2005
I'm spinning off one of your talking points with this clip to the AARP position on Social Security...
quote:
Social Security Trust Funds Isn't Social Security going broke? It probably won't be there for me.
Social Security is not going broke. It can pay 100% of promised benefits until 2041. After that, without any changes, incoming revenues will be enough to pay more than 70% of benefits for decades to come. This isn't good enough � getting 70% wouldn't be fair for today's retirees and it certainly isn't fair for tomorrow's. AARP is in favor of strengthening Social Security so that it continues to pay full benefits to our children and grandchildren.
Bringem's right. The NAZIs were a leftist movement, as were the capital F Fascists. About every two weeks another round of misinformation about what fascism is circulates through this board anew.
quote:
He thinks Nazis were socialists just because they used the word "socialist" in their handle.
I've got a hundred dollars for any leftist that dares to mention their 25-point program.
Euthanasia and Eugenics with respect to "Racial Hygiene"
Anti-Marxism, Anti-Communism, Anti-Bolshevism (commonl;y assiciated with "left wing") The rejection of democracy (!), with as a consequence the ending the existence of political parties, labour unions, and free press. (! encore)
F�hrerprinzip (Leader Principle) Belief in the leader (Responsibility up the ranks, and authority down the ranks.) (HEIL BUSH!)
Defense of Blood and Soil (German: "Blut und Boden" - represented by the red and black colors in the Nazi flag)
"Lebensraumpolitik", "Lebensraum im Osten" (The creation of more living space for Germans in the east)
exalts nation and sometimes race above the individual; okay. Not very socialist, I'd say.
uses violence and modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition. extremely right wing.
engages in severe economic and social regimentation. There you go.
engages in corporatism. Not very liberal...
implements totalitarianism.
Key sentence:
"Fascism developed in opposition to socialism and communism, although some early Fascists were themselves former Marxists. In 1932, Mussolini declared in The Doctrine of Fascism" ]
Woops, IN OPPOSITION! Down you go, baby.
So, time to do your homework, bringemon. Or not. Up to you. It's just that repeating the same flawed statemen over and over and over and over agian doesn't exactly make you look erudite and intelligent. Or interesting, for that matter.
Also, you people might want to read gilded_age's post. Very illuminating.
Fascism noun [U] a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control and extreme pride in country and race, and in which political opposition is not allowed
fascist adjective (ALSO fascistic) fascist groups a fascist dictator/regime
fascist noun [C] 1. someone who supports fascism
2. a person of the far right in politics
3. DISAPPROVING someone who does not allow any opposition: He reckons all policemen are fascists and bullies.
I'll say it again:
a person of the far right in politics
You know what, one last time, just to make it absolutely clear:
Cambridge is in England, correct? Left and right mean the complete opposite in England; therefore you have just proven that fascists are left wing. Thank you.
Posts: 4 | Location: Erf | Registered: 14 February 2005
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