I am all for having debates discussing various issues but Thom needs to stop having the aide to Senator Inhofe on his program debating whether global warming is real or not. This guy throws enough crap out there to cloud the issue and cause normal people to doubt whether global warming is real or not. He eats Thom's lunch every time he's on his program. Thom does a poor job (or is not qualified) to rebuff this guy's intentional distortion of the scientific facts. If Thom wants to give this guy air time, he should put on an expert who can effectively debate and counter the lies that the carbon industry is putting out there.
Posts: 1 | Location: california | Registered: 13 August 2007
I agree with gabman. These denialists know how to "blitz" an interviewer with an array of denialist jargon, changing the subject when challenged on any assertion the interviewer makes.
For those who are interested, realclimate.org will usually supply, rather quickly, a debunking of any published atteempts to smear the anti-GW campaign or its proponents.
I'm listening to Al Franken and this reminds me--everyone go read the July 21 edition of Toranto Star business page on a new renewable energy technology called the Atmospheric Vortex Engine. Also go to vortexengine.ca Since it produces electricity cheaper than coal, gas or electricity, no need to debate the denialists, since the AVE will Always be cheaper and emits no carbon dioxide.
Posts: 7 | Location: Denver CO | Registered: 13 August 2007
I am all for having debates discussing various issues but Thom needs to stop having the aide to Senator Inhofe on his program debating whether global warming is real or not.
I agree. We should only listen to opinions we agree with.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
And this is supposed to be a debate that's "over"! (emphasis mine):
quote:
The reason has to do with the fact that the warmings take about 5000 years to be complete. The lag is only 800 years. All that the lag shows is that CO2 did not cause the first 800 years of warming, out of the 5000 year trend. The other 4200 years of warming could in fact have been caused by CO2, as far as we can tell from this ice core data.
The 4200 years of warming make up about 5/6 of the total warming. So CO2 could have caused the last 5/6 of the warming, but could not have caused the first 1/6 of the warming.
It comes as no surprise that other factors besides CO2 affect climate.
Actually the lag is explained. Rising CO'2 levels and global warming have led to large release of CO'2 from permafrost regions. This indicator will lag global warming already started, not preceed it. Its estimated release as a lagging indicator is about double what is already currently in the atmosphere.
Retired Monk "Ideology is a disease"
Posts: 3412 | Location: denver co | Registered: 17 April 2007
Poly, "could have" and "as far as we can tell" are not definitive answers to anything. Try answering like that in court the next time you are given the opportunity.
homework, indeed--don't waste your time reading these already thoroughly discredited articles debunked in realclimeate.org
Denialists get traction because it is more conveniet for most _not_ to look in the mirror and see the flaws in their lives. If they do, they're quickly given "Botox injections" and told to go look again.
As I said earlier, this argument is moot because there is a new technology that can make elictricity cheap enough to eliminate the need for ALL fossil fuels. This abundand source of energy (CAPE)is contained in the atmosphere (it powers thunderstorms) and the electricity produced is cheap and abundant enough to be used to heat homes and power rapid transit as well as a limited amount of small private cars.
See www.vortexengine.ca (business case) or google the Toronto Star online business section of July 21, 2007.
Posts: 7 | Location: Denver CO | Registered: 13 August 2007
Originally posted by ProudCon: Poly, "could have" and "as far as we can tell" are not definitive answers to anything. Try answering like that in court the next time you are given the opportunity.
Release of gases by melting permafrost isn't a could have, would have. It's a measureable occurrance. CO2 is naturally held in permafrost.
As it melts and releases CO2, the gas becomes a lagging indicator of COs levels in the atmosphere.
Billy, if you like, I can point you to some really good corporate research proving cigarette smoking is not only not harmful, but extremely beneficial! Contact Phillip Morris or Winston-Salem. They have oodles of research to back up the claims.
So lets pay people to smoke and lower the health costs of the nation.
Burn more fossil fuels to cut down on global warming. Excellent idea!
Retired Monk "Ideology is a disease"
Posts: 3412 | Location: denver co | Registered: 17 April 2007
Billy, if you like, I can point you to some really good corporate research proving cigarette smoking is not only not harmful, but extremely beneficial!
And I can point you to some old documents that told us there was no debate, that the Y2K bug was going to end civilization as we knew it. At least that hysteria had a beginning and an end. Who knows what other crap science we are going to have to listen to by those who stand by to make a profit (Al Gore and the like) from the chaos!
quote:
Release of gases by melting permafrost isn't a could have, would have.
If your gonna argue, pay attention to the frieking conversation. I am talking about specific wording on a so-called debate-ending web site, which contains nebulous terminology right in its own content.
I read your posted web site. Most in the field disagree with it.
What company does Gore own that will profit from global warming?
Why are efforts in Germany to combat global warming creating high paying technological jobs rather than chaos and a growing solar power grid in the process?
Germany developed trains travelling the speed of pre-jet aircraft. Lots of chaos there. Could have breakfast in Akron, Lunch in Denver. Use less fuel transporting the same number of people. Chaos.
While other countries advance technologically in efforts to combat global warming, the U.S. sits by and defends the oil industry to the last drop of oil. That is chaos. Committing to the past technologies rather than future ones.
When oil reserves finally become so low as to make their cost prohibitive, who will we be buying the new energy technologies from?
Your web site doesn't end the debate...it continues it.
Retired Monk "Ideology is a disease"
Posts: 3412 | Location: denver co | Registered: 17 April 2007
As I said earlier, this argument is moot because there is a new technology that can make elictricity cheap enough to eliminate the need for ALL fossil fuels. This abundand source of energy (CAPE)is contained in the atmosphere (it powers thunderstorms) and the electricity produced is cheap and abundant enough to be used to heat homes and power rapid transit as well as a limited amount of small private cars.
See www.vortexengine.ca (business case) or google the Toronto Star online business section of July 21, 2007.
Looks interesting. Is anyone doing any serious research on this towards developing a working model? Even if it doesn't work, information could be gained useful to other scientific study. If it does work, it could be a boon.
Retired Monk "Ideology is a disease"
Posts: 3412 | Location: denver co | Registered: 17 April 2007
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
Originally posted by polycarp: Build monk houses. They don't need heating or cooling and stay 72-74 degrees inside year-round using mainly materials from the construction site.
Retired Monk "Ideology is a disease"
Whats a monk house?
Bill Gates built a pretty cool house that has 2/3rds of the structure built into the hillside. With most of it underground, it insulates very well. $60 million+ will get you a decent cave.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."
Theodore Roosevelt, 1913
Posts: 2404 | Location: Redmond WA | Registered: 04 September 2006
I read your posted web site. Most in the field disagree with it.
Glad to hear you admit this, Poly. A step in the right direction.
quote:
Why are efforts in Germany to combat global warming creating high paying technological jobs rather than chaos and a growing solar power grid in the process?
I am sure they are, and there is plenty of entrepreneurial growth happening in the U.S. (and Canada) right now for new technologies. Welcome to the free market.
quote:
When oil reserves finally become so low as to make their cost prohibitive, who will we be buying the new energy technologies from?
We don't know yet, but I am positive we will find the answers over time. Probably a combination of things. How did this become a discussion about alternative energy?
Originally posted by polycarp: Build monk houses. They don't need heating or cooling and stay 72-74 degrees inside year-round using mainly materials from the construction site.
Retired Monk "Ideology is a disease"
Whats a monk house?
Bill Gates built a pretty cool house that has 2/3rds of the structure built into the hillside. With most of it underground, it insulates very well. $60 million+ will get you a decent cave.
They are built mainly from dirt from the foundation with added concrete. Domed are most efficient, as they need no lumber for roofing. Life expectancy is 1,500 years. Cost about $6,000 for 350 sq. feet. They can be built any size or shape and finished with any color.
They can withstand any tornado or hurricane. Cheap, efficient, attractive. Environmentally friendly and very energy efficient.
Retired Monk "Ideology is a disease"
Posts: 3412 | Location: denver co | Registered: 17 April 2007
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