Help: I desperatly need to find info on Jan 17th '07 about the gentleman who was on the Thom Hartmann show. Does anybody know the gentlemans name, I would like very much to get specific details on the biometrics. Has America passed a bill (what bill # and when) that will mandate "microchips" for ID and invasion. Not to mention this certainly would be the "the mark of the beast" spoken of in Revelation! Please help, I would graciously appreciate any input. God bless-all

Hi gem007girl,

Some details from the show are given here.

The guest was Henry Vandergriff, and Thom also discussed it with Larry Scott afterwards.

Te show notes are in the premium area, but you can sign up for a free month's trial.

Just a note about a different, very logical way of interpreting the language of the Book of Revelation.

In various locations in the Bible, when someone is “marked” by God, it can be in good or bad ways.

The “mark” of the beast, as opposed to that of God, would be bad, by all indications.

However, what is a “mark”?

Rev. 13:17: “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name”.

As stated by Dr. Alan D. Clark in his book “Understanding the Revelation of Saint John” he states, “In later verses [of Revelation], the mark of the beast is contrasted to the mark which God will place the foreheads of His followers. Such a mark is a spiritual attribute, as Jesus also received the mark of God, although no outward mark was visible. Such a mark represents the quality of the soul which can be distinguished by the facial countenance of the individual, or which can be determined by the work of his hands.”

Isaiah 3:9: “The look upon their countenance witnesses against them, and they declare their sin as Sodom”.

Of course, to really see something good or bad in someone’s countenance, we really have to look at them in a truly detached and observant way, absent of either hate or love that might prejudice our view of the evidence before us. That’s why looking at their deeds, too, is necessary.

Of course, concerning microchips embedded in an ID card, or accessing our electronic health records, etc., most of us would not want our personal and private information or thoughts to be accessible by anyone. I, too, think extreme caution should be taken before such systems become mandatory. My own view of this “mark of the beast” concept in the Book of Revelation is that the “mark” is a blemish on our spirit as a result of one’s following a distorted faith of God, such as idol worship (which He really, really hates – per the Bible) or the mixing of God’s faiths with the material or power centers of our life on this earth (hence Jesus’ actions against the moneychangers in the temple).

Just something for your consideration.

I heard on the Bill Bennet show here in Iowa that in many states if you get arrested or picked up by the polices for ANY reason they collect your DNA and do not tell you.

Hello Chrisonguard: Thank you for the email, in reference to the DNA collection. There was a piece in the local paper on Sunday about this very thing. Entitled "Rules expand scope of forensic DNA sampling" in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer dated Feb 5th 2007. It is being implemented by the Justice Dept that will include most people arrested or "detained" by federal authorities. However I do not see how it could possibly pass muster with the Supreme Court> as I recall we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. This intrusion does not fall into place with the innocent until proven guilty. This clearly defiles this premise. When any entity has the authority to collect and store our DNA who knows what they will actually do with it. With DNA they could potentially "claim" that someones DNA was found at this or that scene of a crime. I recall a incident of an attorney recently, who's fingerprints (allegedly infalible) were processed at the Madrid bombings, when in reality the attorney was not in Spain at the time, things that make you go hmmm? As well as, here in WA the blood bank has conjoined with the DOD to also collect (allegedly anonymously-uh huh) the DNA of donors. Of course the idea is that the DOD (Dept of Defense, or military) has nothing to do with collecting or retaining the info-again uh huh. What logical reason would the DOD need this information? None that I can possibly wrap my brain around. Thanks again for the info. God bless: gem007girl

Most of Revelations took place many, many, many centuries ago.

Retired Monk

Hello Monk:
I appreciate your comment, and I generally agree however there are certain elements that have not (until now) been available. For instance> Rev: 13: 16&17 And he (the beast) causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. I strongly believe that the capability for such a system of "marking" man has not come into play as of yet. Technological advancements being what there are, this has not to date been a possibility. Little other note on the "chip" the technology was intended for tracking cattle, so what does that say about what the Gov't thinks of all of us. With the ability to "implant" a human being with a "microchip" that will act as a GPS and will eliminate the need for pesky cash transactions. Oh how convenient. With this ability to implant the chip every transaction buy sell trade will be recorded via computer and monetary transactions will be automated. Not to mention as the bible states there will be no where to hide. I look forward to any additional comments. And you being a retired monk, your input is highly desirable. Thank you and God bless: gem007girl

quote:

Originally posted by polycarp:
Most of Revelations took place many, many, many centuries ago.

Retired Monk

quote:

Originally posted by gem007girl:
Hello Monk:
I appreciate your comment, and I generally agree however there are certain elements that have not (until now) been available. For instance> Rev: 13: 16&17 And he (the beast) causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. I strongly believe that the capability for such a system of "marking" man has not come into play as of yet. Technological advancements being what there are, this has not to date been a possibility. Little other note on the "chip" the technology was intended for tracking cattle, so what does that say about what the Gov't thinks of all of us. With the ability to "implant" a human being with a "microchip" that will act as a GPS and will eliminate the need for pesky cash transactions. Oh how convenient. With this ability to implant the chip every transaction buy sell trade will be recorded via computer and monetary transactions will be automated. Not to mention as the bible states there will be no where to hide. I look forward to any additional comments. And you being a retired monk, your input is highly desirable. Thank you and God bless: gem007girl

[QUOTE]Originally posted by polycarp:
Most of Revelations took place many, many, many centuries ago.

Retired Monk

[/QUOTE

Well, one of the Roman emperors used to dress himself in animals skins and butcher Christians in the arena. Head of a bear, body garb of a lion, etc. Statues were required to be erected for the emperors and worshipped as gods.

The number 666 can be converted to represent a Roman Emperor. My own feeling is that it represents "Man". 7, the day of God, the Sabbath. 666, day (s) before the Sabbath. The days of man. The beast is mankind in general in opposition to Christ's teachings of love.

Branding is probably a symbolic rather than a literal meaning, just as in Rev. 12: 5-6 the son who was to rule all nations with an iron scepter was Christ. The sceptor is symbolic for strength and power, and a reference to the Old Testament referring to a coming Messiah with an iron scepter. Jesus didn't carry an iron sceptor. It was symbolic for strength and power of God.

A seal is something you can see. The seal on a diploma, or the "Seal of The United States". We refer to being "sealed" by the Holy Spirit. Can see it? The brand could be somethig like that. Branded with the ways of the world rather than the ways of God.

Revelations was written when the Roman Empire and its tyranny over Christians dominated the world. Most references point to the Roman empire and its emperors.
Revelations was a Christian tract of the period, that is why it uses symbolism understood by the Christians at the time. To be caught with a Christian tract was punishable by death. Romans didn't associate it with Christians. It made no sense to them...and doesn't make sense today if you try to take it literally.

Catholics tend to look upon Reveltions as a book of hope, not doom. Many elements of the Mass are taken from Revelations. White robes, incense at the throne of God, etc.

It is in Revelations that we found Scriptural support that the Virgin Mary was assumed into heaven. Scriptural support that she is Queen of Heaven. Though protestants overlook that, it is there...right in Revelations and stated very clearly.

Retired Monk
"Ideology is a disease"

This message has been edited. Last edited by: polycarp,

quote:

Scriptural support that she is Queen of Heaven.

Davine feminine, maybe?

Anyway, I am currently reading up on the Hopi mythology of "Grandmother Spider". Interesting stuff. I've always envisioned the "fabric" of the universe as an intricate web...

But that's another story, for another time

References to the mother of the man (Jesus) with the iron scepter. Jesus was Jewish. In Judaism, the queen was not the kings wife...it was his mother

Refrences to the woman with a crown in Heaven...now just what woman in Heaven would wear a crown...a sign of royalty?

The universe is an intricate web. So intricate that every bit of life within it depends upon another life. I made a posting under another thread today, something like this:

I inhale oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide. Trees use sunlight to convert carbon dioxide into themselves. I thoroughly enjoyed watching my exhaled breath float through the air as the seeds of a cottonwood tree. The tree in return gave me oxgen in the very air I breathe. So the cycle goes. All life dependent on another. Delightful!

Retired Monk
"Ideology is a disease"