In Prophet's Way Thom tells the story of opening the Bible to a verse in Revelations that states something to the effect that Jesus would come back to punish those that have destroyed the Earth.
I need that verse. I no longer have a copy of Prophet's Way. Does anybody have it and could look this passage up in Thom's book. It's towards the beginning. I will see if I can simply find the verse in Revelations meanwhile.
eley
This message has been edited. Last edited by: eleyballel,
"Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground"--Sweet Baby James
Posts: 1979 | Location: Texas | Registered: 21 August 2004
I am a sometimes bible teacher. I do not have time for a detailed explanation. However, Jesus said,
Matt 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' NIV
It looks like Jesus will exclude evil doers from his future 1,000 year millenial kingdom. Would those who start wars and then lie about them be excluded? When Jesus returns he will NOT start wars. This is not in his character. If any wars occur they will be due to man's innate wickedness. I would never blame the prince of peace for any war now or in the future seeing that he gave his life so that all people could live eternally with the Father.
Posts: 20 | Location: Northern California | Registered: 20 October 2006
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I wish GG would read the above post.
Retired Monk
Posts: 3412 | Location: denver co | Registered: 17 April 2007
Long time no hear. I thought you might enjoy this poem by David Whyte given the topic.
quote:
It doesn't interest me if there is one God or many gods.
I want to know if you belong or feel abandoned.
If you know despair or can see it in others.
I want to know if you are prepared to live in the world. with its harsh need to change you. If you can look back with firm eyes saying this is where I stand. I want to know if you know how to melt into that fierce heart of living falling toward the center of your longing. I want to know if you are willing to live day by day, with the consequence of love and the bitter unwanted passion of your sure defeat.
I have heard, in the fierce embrace, even the gods speak of God.
Posts: 1162 | Location: Boulder Creek Watershed | Registered: 14 February 2004
Wow, buteos, that sounds similar to one of my favorites written my Oriah Mountain Dreamer. It's called The Invitation and goes like this:
quote:
It doesn't interest me what you do for a living. I want to know what you ache for, and if you dare to dream of meeting your heart's longing.
It doesn't interest me how old you are. I want to know if you will risk looking like a fool for love, for your dream, for the adventure of being alive.
It doesn't interest me what planets are squaring your moon. I want to know if you have touched the center of your own sorrow, if you have been opened by life's betrayals or have become shriveled and closed from fear of further pain. I want to know if you can sit with pain, mine or your own, without moving to hide it or fade it, or fix it.
I want to know if you can be with joy, mine or your own, if you can dance with wildness and let the ecstasy fill you to the tips of your fingers and toes without cautioning us to be careful, to be realistic, to remember the limitations of being human.
It doesn't interest me if the story you are telling me is true. I want to know if you can disappoint another to be true to yourself, if you can bear the accusation of betrayal and not betray your own soul; if you can be faithless and therefor trustworthy.
I want to know if you can see beauty, even when it's not pretty, every day, and if you can source your own life from its presence.
I want to know if you can live with failure, yours or mine, and still stand on the edge of the lake and shout to the silver of the full moon, "Yes!".
It doesn't interest me to know where you live or how much money you earn. I want to know if you can get up, after a night of grief and despair, weary and bruised to the bone, and do what needs to be done to feed the children.
I doesn't interest me who you know or how you came to be here. I want to know if you will stand in the center of the fire with me and not shrink back.
It doesn't interest me where or what or with whom you have studied. I want to know what sustains you, from the inside, when all else falls away.
I want to know if you can be alone with yourself and truly like the company you keep in the empty moments.
~Oriah Mountain Dreamer, The Invitation, HarperCollins,1999
------------------------------------ We cannot control the evil tongues of others; but a good life enables us to disregard them.
Posts: 1855 | Location: here and now | Registered: 22 September 2005
21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' NIV
The Jesus Seminar has excluded this text and would not enter it in their database as something Jesus had said or was likely to have said. Having personally studied Hinduism and Buddhism I agree with them that Jesus would never make such a remark.
I agree that war is not in keeping with the teachings of Jesus and that Jesus would rebuke anyone who did. But he would never condemn anyone. I also do not believe that man's true nature is wicked. Instead I believe it is LOVE. When we act in opposition to our true nature we have problems. No Biblical historian believes that Jesus was crucified to provide life everlasting but because he was a seditionist. Rather than having a whole manmade religion about the physical Jesus, we need to start practising and living his teachings.
Posts: 863 | Location: West Palm Beach, FL | Registered: 21 June 2007
Gerry, limit Christ's denial of heaven only to His teachings. You'll find the same ones in Bhuddhism. They are the beginning of the path. Ignore them, you'll fall in a ditch.
Hatreds, bigotries and the like, lead one away from spirituality, not towards it.
Whether you call it Heaven or Nirvana, there do seem to be actions and ways of being that hinder an experience of "oneness", "enlightenment", Heaven, Nirvanna, or whatever other name you choose to give it. The denial of entry lies within oneself. Don't take Christ so literally. Like the Bhudda, His teachings are a pointing.
Many of His teachings reflect those of Rabbi Hillel in addition to Bhuddhism.
What's so is what's so regardless of the source. One needn't practice any particular religion and can still come to that.
How many have discovered Christ's or the Bhudda's teachings without ever hearing of either? Who taught Bhudda?
Retired Monk "Ideology is a disease"
Posts: 3412 | Location: denver co | Registered: 17 April 2007
Funny thing about Scripture... ... they are very much open to interpretation.
For example: I see Daniel in the lions den as an "enlightened" individual having to face and learn to mutually COEXIST with his id.
As for MY OWN, (and I fully admit it is MY OWN), interpretation of: "And I shall destroy them which destroy the Earth."
GOD cannot do anything TO us unless it is THOUGH us. He gave us the EARTH. If we destroy it - it is OUR responsibility to own up to out choices.
Those who destroy it... ...and are left in the "last days" of the destroying will realize it was not GOD but GOD's gift of free will, (man's choice and NOT GOD'S will) that destroyed man.
God has an ENTIRE infinite universe to experiment/play with. This planet is just one microscopic part of his perception. If we chose to be one failed part of his ultimate "experiment" that will be OUR choice... ...not his.
But those are just my thoughts and in this case I truly could very well be wrong.
Because people with no hopes are easy to control ~ The Neverending Story
Posts: 5455 | Location: East Bay | Registered: 25 July 2001
Gee, I had not even remembered this thread. I think it was a year ago last October that I started it. I was thinking about going to a religious rally and just posting copies of the scripture I had asked about on the walls. I tend to stay away from Revelations--it doesn't make sense to me.
I never saw the beautiful poem that Buteos posted and the one after that Lisa posted until today. I need to keep those close at hand.
I have just read much of the "Gospel according to Mark" recently trying to prepare to teach a junior high sunday school class--which I feel totally not qualified for, but I had been asked. I was surprised to find that according to that story Jesus could be harsh in some of his statements. I had studied the complete book of Mark before, but meditatively in a group setting going over one verse at a time. Its a very different experience. The meaning comes across drastically differently, and of course is effected by the discussion that ensues from the reading.
Anyway--it is good to think of the statements in those stories attributed to this Jesus person as pointers.
eley
"Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground"--Sweet Baby James
Posts: 1979 | Location: Texas | Registered: 21 August 2004
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