So this is going to happen tomorrow, should be interesting to see how much support he gets. He has 22 co-sponsors, and more than half the American public on board.
You can look up HR 333, if you have any doubt about the articles for impeachment.
Go Dennis!
"Yeehaw" is not a foreign policy!
Posts: 875 | Location: The Emerald City | Registered: 02 January 2007
Frodo Baggins will be embarrassed when his own party doesn't support this. This should end his run for president anyways. He ain't got the clout nor the goods.
Reading through his articles of impeachment, he throws around alot of accusations of "misleading" and "manipulating" and accuses Cheney of wrongdoing based on the roaming gnomes opinions, not fact. Cheney, or anyone accused of what Frodo has printed, would simply say "Bullsht, prove it". The burdon of actual proof is on the gnome.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."
Theodore Roosevelt, 1913
Posts: 2404 | Location: Redmond WA | Registered: 04 September 2006
Originally posted by Slabmaster: Cheney, or anyone accused of what Frodo has printed, would simply say "Bullsht, prove it". The burdon of actual proof is on the gnome.
In point of fact, the bill doesn't require those saying "Aye" to declare Cheney guilty. It's a measure to require the proceedings to begin. That is, to formally start the investigation that will prove Cheney's guilt or find him innocent.
Cheney should actually invite this. He has nothing to fear unless he IS guilty. If he has done nothing wrong, then the case closes and it becomes a DEAD ISSUE. No double jeopardy allowed. No more talk of impeachment -- for either him or Bush. (Who in their right, er, Left mind would want to dump Bush and put Cheney in the President's chair?)
--------------------------------- "Life isn't worth living until you know what's worth dying for."
"Choose wisely."
Posts: 937 | Location: San Rafael, CA, USA | Registered: 17 July 2007
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
I don't hear anything out of the Whitehouse. I agree with you that Cheney should encourage Frodo to dive on the preverbial granade and then the issue is dead.
My prediction: the Dems will sacrifice one of their own over this. The 22 that signed on are non entities and this will be seen as a grandstanding attempt by the roaming gnome to garner a 1% vote in his Presidential bid.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."
Theodore Roosevelt, 1913
Posts: 2404 | Location: Redmond WA | Registered: 04 September 2006
After Kucinich introduced his Bill on the House floor today, Stoney (Betray Us) Hoyer moved to "table" the vote: meaning to kill the measure. . The vote on Hoyer's amendment was defeated thanks to the Republicans in the house who voted to give Kucinich's Bill a hearing in open debate. More Republicans voted nay (against Hoyer) than Democrats. Bill moves to Committee.
Note the real progressive debate following the article: something you won't see on this site or hear on AirAmerica Airwaves - at least as a condemnation against the CAVE party.
Posts: 1162 | Location: Boulder Creek Watershed | Registered: 14 February 2004
Republicans keep Cheney impeachment bill alive By Jonathan E. Kaplan | Posted: 11/6/07 4:35 p.m. [ET] November 06, 2007 House Republicans on Tuesday prevented Democratic leaders from blocking a resolution to impeach Vice President Dick Cheney.
The vote to table the privileged resolution, offered by Ohio Democrat Dennis Kucinch, began as a largely party-line vote to kill the measure, but Republicans developed a strategy to force Democrats to debate the resolution by supporting Kucinich. GOP leaders felt as though it was in their interest to debate the measure because it would make Democrats look bad.
After more than an hour of waiting for the vote to close, the motion to table the resolution failed by a vote of 162-251 after Democratic leaders failed to convince a group of liberal caucus members to side with them.
Republican lawmakers and aides credited Rep. John Shadegg (R-Ariz.) for coming up with the idea.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
Well, Frodo (old English for "wise by experience"), after all was taken in and betrayed by Gollum. And then...
quote:
Upon his return to the Shire, Frodo helped clear out a criminal mob, led by his cousin, Lotho Sackville-Baggins, and the fallen wizard Saruman, that had taken over the region during his absence. He refused to draw his sword, however, and saw to it that any enemies captured were not killed. He never recovered from the physical, emotional and psychological wounds he had suffered during the War of the Ring, and was in particular taken ill on the anniversaries of his wounding on Weathertop and his poisoning by Shelob. He briefly served as Deputy Mayor of the Shire, but later resigned.
from wikipedia
slab, if you are comparing Kucinich to Frodo, then that is quite the compliment!
------------------------------------ We cannot control the evil tongues of others; but a good life enables us to disregard them.
Posts: 1855 | Location: here and now | Registered: 22 September 2005
I admire Kucinich for having conviction and following it. He is Frodo-like, on a quest ya know. He reminds me of Frodo more than the roaming gnome. His quest is being "allowed" by Republicans as it creates a division of forces in the house. Pelosi (Gollum) will look even more impotent. Frodo is being used and will retire after this 15 minutes of humiliation and waste of tax dollars and time. Congressmen should really focus on making laws and trying to improve matters that are important to our country.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."
Theodore Roosevelt, 1913
Posts: 2404 | Location: Redmond WA | Registered: 04 September 2006
Actually, after the bang up job they've been doing, I would prefer if they'd focus on rubbing ankles in the men's room or some other victimless crime. In fact, I wish they'd quit making laws, doesn't there come a point where we have enough doggone laws? And every time they try to improve something, well, ... you get the jist of it; besides no one can agree what is most important to our country let alone how to improve on it.
------------------------------------ We cannot control the evil tongues of others; but a good life enables us to disregard them.
Posts: 1855 | Location: here and now | Registered: 22 September 2005
Dennis Kucinich read a resolution to impeach Cheney on the floor of the House today. Watch the video. Send the link to friends - you can send e-mails of this post by clicking the "E-mail this" at the end of the post, or by going to the comments, and scrolling down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJYbgouqlMw
The only reason that I can see for Republicans supporting Kucinich is that they think the debate will energize their base. I don't think they get it. They think that the average guy cares about fancy political footwork in the House. They could energize their base by limiting spending and being responsible stewards of the public treasury.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
On a day intended for moving long-overdue annual spending bills, the House instead spent a good chunk of yesterday wrangling over an entirely different endeavor: a motion to impeach Vice President Cheney.
For more than six months, Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich (D-Ohio), a long-shot presidential candidate, has labored to bring to a vote his plan to send the vice president packing. Kucinich says Cheney lied to Americans in the run-up to the Iraq war, chiefly about evidence that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction.
But yesterday, the antiwar liberal's seemingly quixotic effort drew unexpected support from Republicans, who saw a golden opportunity to engage Democrats in a debate on the issue.
Kucinich's rambling, 18-page resolution bristles with citations of Cheney's public comments justifying the war. "The best option to prevent an unnecessary war with Iran," he said, "is to impeach the Vice President, the lead cheerleader of the war" in Iraq.
"The Constitution has been under attack by this administration," Kucinich told an reporter during the vote, and his effort is "part of a growing movement" to defend it.
"This isn't about my campaign," he said. "This isn't a Democratic-Republican issue."
But it became a partisan issue yesterday once Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.) moved to table Kucinich's resolution. Hoyer and Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) have said they will not back such symbolic gestures, for fear of burnishing Congress's current do-nothing image.
During the subsequent vote, Republicans were far along toward helping kill the resolution when they began switching their "yes" votes to "no's," clearly hoping for a public debate that would have showcased the Democrats' most vocal lefties.
But in the end, Hoyer settled for sending the resolution to the Judiciary Committee. There it is destined for oblivion.
Cheney has not come under such direct legislative attack since June, when Democratic Caucus Chairman Rahm Emanuel (Ill.) pushed to cut funding for Cheney's office and residence, even his lawn service. But Emanuel's proposal was tongue-in-cheek, whereas Kucinich's resolution, as he said, was "urgent."
So that's the end of it. Impeachment has been killed in the house because Republicans wanted to make the face of the Democrat party look like the Kucinich, Murtha and the Sheila Jackson Lee's of the House and the power brokers in the Democrat party wouldn't stand for that.
I think that makes a statement about where America is politicaly. The power is in the center. The far left and far right are just noise.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
What a tragic little show that was, I mean, could this government be anymore wishy-washy. If these are our leaders, it is no wonder what is happening to our country.
I heard a caller on Thom's program yesterday, who said you get the politicians you deserve. So perhaps we are all to blame for this travesty which is our government.
"Yeehaw" is not a foreign policy!
Posts: 875 | Location: The Emerald City | Registered: 02 January 2007
What a tragic little show that was, I mean, could this government be anymore wishy-washy. If these are our leaders, it is no wonder what is happening to our country.
Mel, the entire system is corrupt: from the Halls of Congress to the corporatocracy which includes AirAmerica and the dancing puppets on a string like Rhodes, Hartman, et all. The fear and disempowerment runs so deep in these wishy-washy folks, is that the only thing they can grasp anymore is swallow hard and start promoting the corporate choice for president, Hillary Clinton. It gets more pathetic by the day.
Posts: 1162 | Location: Boulder Creek Watershed | Registered: 14 February 2004
Originally posted by meljomur: I heard a caller on Thom's program yesterday, who said you get the politicians you deserve. So perhaps we are all to blame for this travesty which is our government.
Hey! I've been saying that since I got here. "A nation has the government it deserves." If people are too busy just living their lives to _make_ the time to influence the manner in which they are governed, then the government that oppresses them is the reward of their own apathy.
Want things to change? Just having a million-man march every weekend for a month would send the message. Just form in the suburbs and march on town halls everywhere. That's just 1/300th of the nation's population. We can't even mobilize that small of a fraction? Then, most definitely: we have the government we _deserve_.
--------------------------------- "Life isn't worth living until you know what's worth dying for."
"Choose wisely."
Posts: 937 | Location: San Rafael, CA, USA | Registered: 17 July 2007
Another way to change things is just say no to Hartmann, Bush, the Cave Party and take your vote elsewhere: Independents and Green Party candidates will be on every ballot in the next election. Just say NO to the pond scum!
Posts: 1162 | Location: Boulder Creek Watershed | Registered: 14 February 2004
Originally posted by meljomur: What a tragic little show that was, I mean, could this government be anymore wishy-washy. If these are our leaders, it is no wonder what is happening to our country.
If Kucinich is your leader, then you just got the little side show he promised. All 12 minutes of it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."
Theodore Roosevelt, 1913
Posts: 2404 | Location: Redmond WA | Registered: 04 September 2006
On a day intended for moving long-overdue annual spending bills, the House instead spent a good chunk of yesterday wrangling over an entirely different endeavor: a motion to impeach Vice President Cheney.
For more than six months, Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich (D-Ohio), a long-shot presidential candidate, has labored to bring to a vote his plan to send the vice president packing. Kucinich says Cheney lied to Americans in the run-up to the Iraq war, chiefly about evidence that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction.
But yesterday, the antiwar liberal's seemingly quixotic effort drew unexpected support from Republicans, who saw a golden opportunity to engage Democrats in a debate on the issue.
Kucinich's rambling, 18-page resolution bristles with citations of Cheney's public comments justifying the war. "The best option to prevent an unnecessary war with Iran," he said, "is to impeach the Vice President, the lead cheerleader of the war" in Iraq.
"The Constitution has been under attack by this administration," Kucinich told an reporter during the vote, and his effort is "part of a growing movement" to defend it.
"This isn't about my campaign," he said. "This isn't a Democratic-Republican issue."
But it became a partisan issue yesterday once Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.) moved to table Kucinich's resolution. Hoyer and Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) have said they will not back such symbolic gestures, for fear of burnishing Congress's current do-nothing image.
During the subsequent vote, Republicans were far along toward helping kill the resolution when they began switching their "yes" votes to "no's," clearly hoping for a public debate that would have showcased the Democrats' most vocal lefties.
But in the end, Hoyer settled for sending the resolution to the Judiciary Committee. There it is destined for oblivion.
Cheney has not come under such direct legislative attack since June, when Democratic Caucus Chairman Rahm Emanuel (Ill.) pushed to cut funding for Cheney's office and residence, even his lawn service. But Emanuel's proposal was tongue-in-cheek, whereas Kucinich's resolution, as he said, was "urgent."
So that's the end of it. Impeachment has been killed in the house because Republicans wanted to make the face of the Democrat party look like the Kucinich, Murtha and the Sheila Jackson Lee's of the House and the power brokers in the Democrat party wouldn't stand for that.
I think that makes a statement about where America is politicaly. The power is in the center. The far left and far right are just noise.
I am curious - who, when or what are you quoting? You are very informative, and I appreciate that, though I think the real news item here is the media treatment of HR 333. I emailed the following to Bill Moyers:
Another ignored story on 11-06 & 11-07, by mainstream media, including NPR, is the HR 333 introduced by Dennis Kucinich to impeach Cheney. NPR's Bryant Park Project named a 6 min, 53 sec story,"Kucinich Calls for Cheney Impeachment", yet had Allison Stewart spend only 1 min, 48 sec of the total broadcast on the title story, mostly calling Kucinich's reading of the resolution "a stunt". Several times. Such historical resolutions deserve rational political analysis, not dismissal. Clinton's impeachment proceedings were never called a stunt, though indeed, they were. HR 333 charges Cheney with violating a UN treaty the US signed to not initiate (Iraq) OR threaten war (Iran too), and charges Cheney with lying about reasons to go to war. We Americans deserve coverage if not extensive analysis of these momentous charges. Also, why did Republican NOT vote to table the resolution? And why and how is it being "buried" in committee? The real story is as you are so great at pointing out: Where is the coverage? Where is the rational coverage? I'd love to see you provide a nod toward this story.
Posts: 1 | Location: Colorado | Registered: 07 November 2007
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
Originally posted by zense: Such historical resolutions deserve rational political analysis, not dismissal. Clinton's impeachment proceedings were never called a stunt, though indeed, they were. HR 333 charges Cheney with violating a UN treaty the US signed to not initiate (Iraq) OR threaten war (Iran too), and charges Cheney with lying about reasons to go to war. We Americans deserve coverage if not extensive analysis of these momentous charges.
Hmmmmm......"historical"...
More like hysterical.
I get the drift though. It is all about getting back at Repubs for impeaching Clinton.
quote:
Also, why did Republican NOT vote to table the resolution? And why and how is it being "buried" in committee? The real story is as you are so great at pointing out: Where is the coverage? Where is the rational coverage? I'd love to see you provide a nod toward this story.
Pretty easy to unscramble Mel,
The Republicans are happy to bring this to the floor to allow Frodo and the Dems to bury themselves with it. It would be a turkey shoot and shown as a colossal waste of time. Frodo is in over his head. (no pun intended) What news agency or reporter is going to sacrifice a career for Frodo's aimless yapping?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."
Theodore Roosevelt, 1913
Posts: 2404 | Location: Redmond WA | Registered: 04 September 2006
Who is this "Frodo" guy you keep talking about? I thought Frodo was a Harry Potter character. I don't believe there is anybody in the United States Congress named Frodo. Who is this guy? Are we having trouble distinguishing a children's story from The People's Business?
Posts: 946 | Location: Newberg | Registered: 15 March 2006
Another way to change things is just say no to Hartmann, Bush, the Cave Party and take your vote elsewhere: Independents and Green Party candidates will be on every ballot in the next election. Just say NO to the pond scum!
I seriously believe that would practically guarantee a GOP sweep in the election. No way to break up that very solid 30-35% voting block.
--------------------------------- "Life isn't worth living until you know what's worth dying for."
"Choose wisely."
Posts: 937 | Location: San Rafael, CA, USA | Registered: 17 July 2007
Originally posted by artlo: Who is this "Frodo" guy you keep talking about? I thought Frodo was a Harry Potter character. I don't believe there is anybody in the United States Congress named Frodo. Who is this guy? Are we having trouble distinguishing a children's story from The People's Business?
J.R.R. Tolkien, "Lord of the Rings". Frodo Baggins, a Hobbit (essentially a midget dwarf) is charged with nearly single-handedly saving all of the Known World.
The Frodo reference probably stems from Kucinich's diminuative stature. Add that to his quest to save the US from collapsing into chaos and.....
--------------------------------- "Life isn't worth living until you know what's worth dying for."
"Choose wisely."
Posts: 937 | Location: San Rafael, CA, USA | Registered: 17 July 2007
Originally posted by Slabmaster: I get the drift though. It is all about getting back at Repubs for impeaching Clinton.
Puh-leeze! Clinton got into that whole mess because of a blow job. Bush and Cheney's mess involved about a half-million people getting killed and the US Treasury getting dinged for about $1 trillion (eventually reaching $10 trillion over 10 years). Trying to balance those two situations is like trying to compare a hydrogen bomb to a BB.
--------------------------------- "Life isn't worth living until you know what's worth dying for."
"Choose wisely."
Posts: 937 | Location: San Rafael, CA, USA | Registered: 17 July 2007
Since losing the house in '94 and culminating with the loss of the oval office in 2000, it has been a mission of the dem party to play gotcha at every turn. The loss in '04 solidified the hatred and dirty deed politics of many. This stunt by the roaming gnome is mearly a stunt to get press. No one wants it as it is political poison to dems and the public is sick of the BS.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."
Theodore Roosevelt, 1913
Posts: 2404 | Location: Redmond WA | Registered: 04 September 2006
Slab posted: "Since losing the house in '94 and culminating with the loss of the oval office in 2000, it has been a mission of the dem party to play gotcha at every turn. The loss in '04 solidified the hatred and dirty deed politics of many."
Hey Slab, if you're close to the "middle of the road" then the road must full of Dem roadkill on both sides, run over by GOP gotcha. Get real and clean those poor carcasses off the road.
I seriously believe that would practically guarantee a GOP sweep in the election.
I am not so sure. Newsweek's new cover story asserts that Bloomberg is not only getting in, but he appears ready to spend 1 Billion to promote his independent candidacy for President. I think the voters are ready for a real change, and are also tiring of the lip-service various talking heads bring to the dance without ever changing anything except the ass hole who will be screwing us next.
Try something different. Listen to your own voice, not some moron.
Posts: 1162 | Location: Boulder Creek Watershed | Registered: 14 February 2004
People vote with their wallets. I don't see the economy recovering from rising gas prices and the collapse of the housing market for a couple years. That isn't good news for any incumbent and it's not good news for the Republican candidate for president.
Unless of coarse the Democrat candidate is Hillary who couldn't be elected as dog catcher.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
Unless of coarse the Democrat candidate is Hillary who couldn't be elected as dog catcher.
Actually Don, she might make a good dog cathcer, or flipping burgers @ Burger Thing sounds about right.
USA Today, conducted a poll recently showing that over 50% of Married Men would definately not vote for her. Outside of her support in the Party, I don't think she is capable of being elected. This time next year, we will see who is right.
Posts: 1162 | Location: Boulder Creek Watershed | Registered: 14 February 2004
Actually Don, she might make a good dog cathcer, or flipping burgers @ Burger Thing sounds about right.
Ankles are too thick to catch dogs, burgers are a possibility.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
Ah, Lord of the Rings. I knew it was one of those fantasy tales. One of my best buddies looks a lot like Nick Nolte, but I still refer to him by his own name.
Posts: 946 | Location: Newberg | Registered: 15 March 2006
Individuals are legally responsible for their views. Messages or parts of messages may be quoted or read on the radio, or reprinted in Thom's books and other materials.
Discussion Community 
