James Leo

quote:

You are comparing apples with oranges. We are talking about teen sex not low birth rates. There is no connection

There is a direct correlation, James Leo.

When human sexuality is dehumanized it will lower birth rates.

quote:

Teens believe they don't have a choice about sexual activity.

Part of sex education is teaching students that they do have a choice and if someone tries to take that choice away from them then that person is violating their rights.

quote:

In Canada, you have the right to make decisions about your body. You have the right to:

* Decide whether or not to have children, when to have children, and how many children to have

* Choose a birth control method that is right for you

* Receive sexual and reproductive health care services

* Receive information about sexual and reproductive health

* Choose your partner

* Agree whether or not to have sexual relations

* Decide when to have sex or not

* Choose whether or not to marry, agree to the marriage

http://www.thinkagain.ca/resources/choosingahealthclinic

GG says:

quote:

We fail to see, feel, or hear what they see, hear, or feel.

No one can truly see, feel or hear what another person sees feels or hears - every time all the time. Those who pretend to are con artists - or worse.

Though it is possible that people can have the same feeling for different reason or that two different people have some shared experiences.

quote:

Teens need to refuse to be spoken to like they are out of control.

That is true. Teens need someone who doesn't exploit them when they feel helpless by trying to may them feel even more helpless so that the teen becomes emotionally dependent on them. Instead, a teens needs people who empower them by telling them what their rights are and who give them the information they need to make their own decisions.

quote:

New England Journal of Medicine

Could you give me the year and month or year and name of first author so that I can look it up. One doesn't have to do it for every article, but one should do it once in a while when one reads a book to see if (for example) Meeker is seeing in the article what you would have seen.

It is so easy to misrepresent the contents of a scientific article so that it sounds like it supports her argument more than it does. That is why you should always check for yourself. If it is a research article, the intro and the conclusion is a good start for a newbie.

Actually, probably be best to look at the studies Meeker cites which say that "abstinence only" programs work better than "abstinence and" programs in reducing the risk of STD infection. I think that we are all interested in looking those up.

quote:

It's only takes one experience and the suffering is for the rest of a teen's life which can also be passed to their children infecting their brains.

Actually, if the doctors know about it before the baby is born, the doctor can prevent HIV from being passed on to the infant.

If one is sexually active, one cannot completely eliminate the risk but one can reduce it drastically.

quote:

Society does a lot to keep youth safe, but continually sells them sex and lie how to have safe sex with condoms and birth control pills!!??

No credible source will claim that The Pill prevents STDs.

quote:

Irregular sex violates the human condition - that is what needs to be truly understood.

"Violating" a person with the use of one's sexual organs is not sex. The perpetrator may pretend that it is but it isn't. If one gives birth after a rape, one has conceived and given birth without ever having had sex.

If one equates rape with sex, of course one will see it as unnatural. But they are not the same thing.

Vaudree

quote:

what their rights are and who give them the information they need to make their own decisions.

Yes, that's what comprehensive sex ed does - it teaches youth to make THEIR OWN decisions separate and apart from their parents or guardians. See how deceitful sex curriculae intend to be. It 'empowers' youth to put wedges in families.

Don't be so fast to be critical of the above statement. I know many families are in trouble today. A lot begins right in the class rooms and parents are clueless.

Vaudree

quote:

Instead, a teens needs people who empower them by telling them what their rights are and who give them the information they need to make their own decisions.

Each person should check their State laws and discover who's got the power. When it comes to matters of power and confidentiality in sexual and fertility matters, minors have the power over the parents and guardians. Shocking but true.

Schools allow curriculum that are blatant in your face inundated with "how to have sex." The very fabric of society, the very future of the human race is threatened by 'out of control' change agent educrats. If you doubt that than ask why the N E A adopted U. N. foreign human rights policies to be their guardian angel of policy making of public ed in our nation. Just that fact alone should cause an uprise, an energetic formation of counter policies and get the A C L U out of the class rooms and out of our great nation.

Sex education intends to promote under whatever guise it may appear, a method to spread amoralism, the destruction of the family, the society and the nation. And God help us, citizens are asleep and our youth are the first being taken captive to a wicked enemy.

Vaudree

quote:

Actually, if the doctors know about it before the baby is born, the doctor can prevent HIV from being passed on to the infant.

Many do not know they are carriers and many believe they are cured from a previous STD and/or have been silent not facing the reality of the effect of HPVs effect in to the next generation.

You see, how to get sexually active is considered honorable and must be taught (follow the money trail); consequences, however, are recorded and hidden by silence even by our own tax payer funded medical authorities such as the CDC, cancer institutes, and NEJM.

No, Vaudree, I don't have the references. Do you doubt that I am working on getting them?

quote:

Everyday, more and more children are poisoned by the media and our sex-crazed culture. Abortion, pre-marital sex, pornography, infidelity and STDs are out of control !

Why are so many lives being destoyed? Because many people have lost their respect for God, family and human life. Unfortunately, people don't know the meaning of true love anymore. They've lost their own self-respect and forgotten the Golden Rule.

Authenic Love is the Key to Saving Our Youth.

quote:

Other signs of the "sexual revolution" include skyrocketing divorce rates and an epidemic of sexually transmitted diseases which now infect 1 of every 5 Americans.

How can we turn this sexual crisis around? True Love is the answer. Generous, disciplined, selfless love is the only way to find lasting peace and happiness. We must love our neighbors as ourselves. We must teach our children to love by example. We must encourage our media and our culture to stop portraying people as sex objects....

quote:

Epidemic
How Teen Sex is Killing Our Kids
by Meg Meeker, M.D.
Lifeline Press ; ISBN: 0-89526-143-X
Hardcover - 288 pages (October 2002)

Sexually transmitted diseases among our teens have become a full-blown epidemic — and it's killing our kids. In 1960, doctors battled two commonly known STDs. Today, more than 30 viruses exist. One in five Americans over the age of 12 has genital herpes - a 500% increase since 1976.

New studies show that teenage girls have a 46 % chance of contracting HPV at their first sexual encounter - a disease that is directly connected to 99.7% of cervical cancers. Clearly, this epidemic is wreaking havoc on our youth.

In this groundbreaking expose, Dr. Meg Meeker uncovers the story of this serious epidemic and the pattern of political correctness and marketing hype that has caused this tidal wave of disease. Says Meeker, “We’ve been so focused on birth control that we’ve completely forgotten about disease control.

In Epidemic , Dr. Meeker explains the facts behind the epidemic, tracing the causes, from our overemphasis on birth control to the “false sexual world” created by television, the movies and the media. If you’re a parent or guardian, teacher or relative, of a teen-ager, this book can help you understand the dynamics behind this frightening medical phenomenon, and show you what you can do to keep your child from becoming another statistic.

Dr. Meg Meeker - -

quote:

When I went to medical conferences around the country I asked my colleagues what they were seeing. They told me the same frightening story—STDs, risky behaviors, and in younger and younger kids. Not just in the tough crowds—in all types of crowds. I became particularly distressed talking to my gynecologist friends. They saw the messes too. They felt like they were fighting an uphill battle that couldn’t be won. As they shrugged their shoulders in frustration, I began to see my patients’ teachers doing the same thing. “We know our kids are having sex all the time. And we know they may get sick, but what can we do?” I heard this repeatedly from both teachers and physicians.

As my own kids have grown, I’ve become increasingly troubled by the advertising, the movies, and the magazines targeting our kids. Like so many other parents, I have been dragged into Abercrombie & Fitch and the video rental store, and have shaken my head “no” until it felt like it would fall off. Maybe these bother me more than most parents. Because in the morning, I drive to my office, go behind a closed examining room door, and clean up another mess. Like HPV in a 15-year-old or herpes in a high school senior.

My hope is that, as you read about my patients and you see the overwhelming data about the epidemic of STDs you will become uncomfortable too.

Silence is not an option. Silence kills our youth.

GG,

I have a basic question, just to get a firmer handle on where you're coming from:

Do you believe that human beings evolved from primates, or do you believe that God created humans to the same biological level we are today? (That is, genetically speaking, we are still the same basic human being that he He created originally.)

GG et al: I am not going to dwn play the problems of unprotected/underage sex: However we face a much greater problem in the USA Childhood Obesity Over 25%0 of US children are obese: We are seeing a surge in Hypertension,Diabetes,Metabolic Syndrome; all of these factores will result in a shorter lifespan and a reduced quality of life. Sorry there is no way you and convnce me that that sexual behavor is having more of an impact than this.

Epidemiol Rev. 2007;29:6-28. Epub 2007 May 17.Links
The obesity epidemic in the United States--gender, age, socioeconomic, racial/ethnic, and geographic characteristics: a systematic review and meta-regression analysis.Wang Y, Beydoun MA.
Center for Human Nutrition, Department of International Health, Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, 615 North Wolfe Street, Baltimore, MD 21205, USA. ywang@jhsph.edu

This review of the obesity epidemic provides a comprehensive description of the current situation, time trends, and disparities across gender, age, socioeconomic status, racial/ethnic groups, and geographic regions in the United States based on national data. The authors searched studies published between 1990 and 2006. Adult overweight and obesity were defined by using body mass index (weight (kg)/height (m)(2)) cutpoints of 25 and 30, respectively; childhood "at risk for overweight" and overweight were defined as the 85th and 95th percentiles of body mass index. Average annual increase in and future projections for prevalence were estimated by using linear regression models. Among adults, obesity prevalence increased from 13% to 32% between the 1960s and 2004. Currently, 66% of adults are overweight or obese; 16% of children and adolescents are overweight and 34% are at risk of overweight. Minority and low-socioeconomic-status groups are disproportionately affected at all ages. Annual increases in prevalence ranged from 0.3 to 0.9 percentage points across groups. By 2015, 75% of adults will be overweight or obese, and 41% will be obese. In conclusion, obesity has increased at an alarming rate in the United States over the past three decades. The associations of obesity with gender, age, ethnicity, and socioeconomic status are complex and dynamic. Related population-based programs and policies are needed.

PMID: 17510091 [PubMed - in process]

Related LinksPrevalence of overweight and obesity in the United States, 1999-2004. [JAMA. 2006]Overweight children and adolescents: a risk group for iron deficiency. [Pediatrics. 2004]Ethnicity, socio-economic status, overweight and underweight in East London adolescents. [Ethn Health. 2005]Ethnic issues in the epidemiology of childhood obesity. [Pediatr Clin North Am. 2001]Prevalence of overweight and obesity among US children, adolescents, and adults, 1999-2002. [JAMA. 2004]See all Related Articles...
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Jim,

Just a suggestion: Child obesity is, as you say, a serious issue in and of itself. I'd suggest that you start it with it's own thread because though they have the common denominator of children, it would make the conversations somewhat...schizophrenic. Distinctly different causes for the two, distinctly different solutions more than likely.

Just a thought.

Capt Patch: You are absloutly right in making that suggestion. Childhood Obesity should have its own thread.What I was attempting to do is address the premise that Teen Sex is the most compelling public health issue we face at this time. I believe that premise is incorrect and have offered evidence to substantiate my claim. Sorry for the misunderstanding

quote:

Originally posted by James Leo:
...is the most compelling public health issue we face at this time. I believe that premise is incorrect...

"Well _I_ think a 30-06 will kill you deader than a 12-guage shotgun any day of the week!"

Dead is dead, right? Best to fix _both_ problems, as opposed to one or the other.

Just another one of those stray thoughts. They just keep popping out all over the place.

quote:

James
Leo
...we face a much greater problem in the USA 25% of US children are obese: We are seeing a surge in Hytpertension,Diabetes,Metabolic Syndrome;

Congratulations blog-adders! James Leo's argument to me is that fat, is more of a childgood problem, than childhood sex. I think this is to a strong degree, a GOOD inductive argument.
*He has provided evidence that more children are affected by overweight problems, than by problematic childhood sexual intercourse.
*He has provided evidence of CONCURRENT problems arising or associated with obesity in our children, and he has suggested that these problems both cause human misery, and cost our society disproportionate amounts of money.

The argument that 100% of teenage sex causes anguish has not been adequately defined by reasonable exertion, but rather the argument seems to resort to a general appeal to some vague ethical standard, by which apparantly, all parents should regulate their children, the same.

Congratulations folks, cause this strain on Thom's site has achieved EXACTLY what our future legislators must do; lots of issues are concurrently impacting us, yet the numbers MUST be kept separate(with its own thread), compared, and our old ways synthesized and left for the new! Good on ya!!

People over eat because they are depressed or unhappy with their romantic lives, so the two are linked.

People drink and do drugs because of things that happened in the past - including things that are on topic.

And I once heard of a test which told you how far away you would have to move away from to to be considered exotic enough to be appealing to the opposite gender - so bomb threats on planes probably touch on this topic, albeit remotely, too.

Will comment later, but have to tell you that Henry Morgentaler will be on The Hour Wednesday.

You may not know who he is, but I am sure GG does and considers him evil incarnate. His slogan is "Every mother a willing mother, every child a wanted child"

On Tuesday is Naomi Klein's father-in-law, Stephen Lewis, who recently became the co-director of AIDS-Free World (among other things) will be on. Stephen Lewis wants to do what is needed to get rid of AIDs.


Are the following the words of a "promoter"?
http://www.cfsh.ca/ppfc/content.asp?articleid=40

The person who wrote this seems to think that teens tend to confuse love and sex. Why do they consider it important information for teens to distinguish between these two concepts?

quote:

Why do I want to have sex?

People have sex for many different reasons. It could be because they are lonely, or horny or drunk, because they love someone, or because they want to make someone love them. People also have sex because they feel pressured to or because they want to get pregnant or because they want to experiment. Unfortunately, many people end up having sex for the first time without thinking about it beforehand.

Ask yourself: "Why do I want to have sex? Why does my partner want to have sex?"

When you think about your reasons, it is important not to confuse love and sex. Having sex with someone doesn't mean you love them or that they love you. Having sex also won't make someone love you, or love you more, no matter how great the experience is. Love is an emotion and sex is a biological act. People can show love in all kinds of non-sexual ways, like spending time with someone, listening to them and talking.

It is also important not to have sex because you feel pressured or because it is something that you feel you have to do. If you have sex when you don't want to, it won't be a positive experience and you will likely feel bad afterward. No one should make you do something you don’t want to do.

Here they are recommending that you think about what your values are after. Note that they have this one second. If you see sex as an expression of love and commitment and the other sees it as something you can do even with someone you don't really like very much and probably don't want to keep in touch with, it will not be a very good experience.

quote:

What about my values?

Many people base their decisions about sex on moral or religious values. Think carefully about what your values are, and make a decision that agrees with those values. One way to do that is to think about how you will feel after you have sex. It may also be a good idea to talk to a close friend, or someone whose opinion you trust about your decision.

So which is most apt to stop sex, a person's values or the litmus test than one must be comfortable talking contraception with the person?

quote:

Do I trust my partner?

People often say that trusting their partner had a lot to do with how positive their first sexual experience was. Before you decide to have sex, ask yourself:

* Do my partner and I trust each other?
* Do we feel a strong closeness?
* Can I talk to my partner about birth control and safer sex?

A good rule of thumb: If you can't talk to your partner about your concerns about safer sex, or birth control, then you probably are not ready to have sex with that person.

Research did not end with Kinsey. Entrepeneurs, still do come, from the USA, even Utah. 15 years of waiting, is a high motivational tool, as a toolmaker discovered.

Vaudree

quote:

....A good rule of thumb: If you can't talk to your partner about your concerns about safer sex, or birth control, then you probably are not ready to have sex with that person.

Which public school web site did you get this?

These are they words of those who set themselves against natural intrinsic law.

douglaslee, your references are shocking who once again, war against freedom of person hood, who fail to grasp the dignity and respect that is rightfully due to each and every person. There is always a tendency to be distracted from the topic and I resist saying more about a specific reference you made that we in this nation continue to support with our tax dollars that sparked the sexual revolution.

quote:

Originally posted by CaptainPatch:
GG,

I have a basic question, just to get a firmer handle on where you're coming from:

Do you believe that human beings evolved from primates, or do you believe that God created humans to the same biological level we are today? (That is, genetically speaking, we are still the same basic human being that he He created originally.)

CaptainPatch, in another thread possibly you can show pictures of the current various stages of human evolution to prove your point. I look forward to it.

quote:

Originally posted by GG:

quote:

Originally posted by CaptainPatch:
Do you believe that human beings evolved from primates, or do you believe that God created humans to the same biological level we are today? (That is, genetically speaking, we are still the same basic human being that he He created originally.)

CaptainPatch, in another thread possibly you can show pictures of the current various stages of human evolution to prove your point. I look forward to it.

I take it from your answer that you're a Creationist. The reason I asked was to see which "camp" you place yourself in. For this kind of conversation, the two camps are using noticeably different -- and diametrically opposed "facts". Specifically, their views on what is "natural" and what is "unnatural", what kind of instinctual drives are or are not involved. Because of the distinctly opposing opinions, it is unlikely that members from opposing camps can ever reach a concensus of opinion. Such as, how can a Creationist accept an Evolutionist's contention that the human sex drive has a basic, underlying animalist urge to mate? Or conversely, how can an Evolutionist accept the Creationist's contention that since we were created in His image by God himself there is included in our makeup an inherent blueprint of "proper" sexual behavior from which it is unnatural to deviate?

With such opposing views on a basic foundation, how can speculations of how to correct a human sexuality problem result in anything other than a shouting match (at worst) or an "agreement to disagree" (at best)?

[/quote]I take it from your answer that you're a Creationist[/quote]

Creationism is not a tenet of the Roman Catholic Church. I had 12 years of Catholic education and we discussed Darwin and evolution. Many of the clerics and nouns had read "The origin of Species" No one had a problem. Maybe now things have changed.

quote:

Originally posted by James Leo:

I take it from your answer that you're a Creationist[/quote]

Creationism is not a tenet of the Roman Catholic Church. I had 12 years of Catholic education and we discussed Darwin and evolution. Many of the clerics and nouns had read "The origin of Species" No one had a problem. Maybe now things have changed.[/QUOTE]

That's why I didn't deliberately attach it to any specific religion. _Some_ religions have blended the two theories, but others are "purists" that can NOT conceive that human beings could possibly have evolved from apes. I _think_ that GG is in that group. (Sorry if I'm wrong, GG!)

quote:

With such opposing views on a basic foundation, how can speculations of how to correct a human sexuality problem

I don't think there is such a thing as a human sexuality problem, though throughout history many cases of 'perceived problems' of a 'cultural' nature. [used to be loose women]. Families used to send their pregnant daughter out of town. Then when the surgeon general suggested masturbation could prevent many pregnancies she had to quit, not because she was wrong, but sex just isn't done, even with yourself. Creationists must still explain did Adam and Eve have navels? It's a question that some on the link have no trouble explaining, no trouble at all, as a matter of fact, I think a new museum in Kentucky explains it, right along with the children playing with dinosaurs.

CaptainPatch - I'm not a purist. The Catholic Church has not ruled out that evolution could have been used during the beginning of the human civilization.

However, you are still are not providing pictures and documentations of the various current stages of human evolution. C'mon - prove your point! - please in another thread.