10/1/05 -
A BRAD SHOW Special Edition!



"Democracy at Stake"
LIVE from the

National Summit to Save Our Elections in Portland, Oregon



MP3 Downloads
HOUR 1 Featuring clips from the panel discussion on Electronic Voting moderated at the summit by Brad (9/29/05) with Attorney PAUL LEHTO, VotersUnite.org's ELLEN THEISEN and Vote-Rigging Software Whistleblower CLINT CURTIS. And a few words with our own producer, the infamous KAT L'ESTRANGE!

HOUR 2 A few words with VotersUnite.org's JOHN GIDEON, followed by a LIVE impromptu roundtable on election reform and media blackouts with Air America's THOM HARTMANN of The Thom Hartmann Program and 2004 Green Party Presidential Candidate, DAVID COBB.

HOUR 3 An uninterrupted on-stage interview from the summit with ROBERT KOEHLER (9/29/05) Bob and Brad interview each other on becoming the media! Bob discusses the surreal story of having his column spiked by TMS and Brad discusses the media and the origin of The BRAD BLOG. Plus a few minutes with Summit organizer BETH HAHN of the Oregon Voting Rights Coalition.

HOUR 4 HOLLY JACOBSON of VoterAction.org on their lawsuit against the 2004 Election in NM, KIP HUMPHREY of ElectionAssessment.org on the commission set up as a counter to the phony Baker/Carter Election Reform Commission. And a BRAD'S rousing (and funny) on-stage speech Saturday night at the summit (10/1/05) on Baker/Carter, ACVR, David vs. Goliath and fighting on every front!







Progressive Democrats of America

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National Journal

Yes, it's seems like Election Day 2004 was just yesterday -- but new leaders of the Senate Democratic and Republican campaign committees are already in place, signaling the start of the 2006 battle for Senate seats. CongressDaily has taken a state-by-state look at the 33 seats that will be up next year -� 18 now in Democratic control, 15 in the hands of the GOP.



Democratic Seats
Repugnican Seats


Frank Luntz Republican Playbook -- Searchable Text-Version

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George Orwell

"Politics and the English Language"
1946

Most people who bother with the matter at all would admit that the English language is in a bad way, but it is generally assumed that we cannot by conscious action do anything about it. Our civilization is decadent and our language -- so the argument runs -- must inevitably share in the general collapse. It follows that any struggle against the abuse of language is a sentimental archaism, like preferring candles to electric light or hansom cabs to aeroplanes. Underneath this lies the half-conscious belief that language is a natural growth and not an instrument which we shape for our own purposes.

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Framing vs. Fencing: A post-Lakoff analysis

To use the links one need authorization.

This is the type of info that we do need to know. What state's seats are up for election in 06 and what seats are either vaunerable or the ones we might be able to take.

I'm also wanting to know more about the candidates and their stances on voteing issues and finance reform or sorporate money corrupting the political process.

Up untill now I've just been to lazy to do the work. lol

The political process in this country is DEAD.

We cannot change things by 'voting' because our votes are changed by hacked machines, 'ghost' voters are voting for our opposition and corruption is rampant.

I will not be wasting my time again 'voting' our votes don't count.Our 'votes' don't matter.

This country is in the control of heartless, greedy corporation and a fascist dictatorship who are driving us to ruin.

How many times must we 'lose' the vote untill we get the message-OUR VOTES ARE A SHAM!!

Both parties are in the pocket of the corporations, so there is NO 'opposition' party anymore if there ever has been.Time and time again we have been lied to, deceived and tricked by those in power.

9/11 was orchestrated by this administration, the buildings were brought down by explosives, no skyscraper in history has been brought down by a fire or a plane crashing into it and those towers were built to withstand a plane crashing in to it and fires.

We were lied about why we had to attack Iraq and we are still being lied too.

Wake up folks, we are 'living' in a unelected, fascist police state run by a lying dictator brought to you buy the corporations who only care about their botton line, not us.

Don't waste your time trying to change things by 'voting', you'll be better off and will accomplish just as much by staying home.

Dont let their game work on you

Republicans aim to drive down voter turnout
THE PROGRESSIVE OCTOBER 1998 ISSUE

BY JOHN NICHOLS

Randall Terry, the Operation Rescue activist who this year has undergone a metamorphosis from abortion clinic terrorist to serious Republican Congressional candidate, has a simple strategy for achieving political success. "Pray for a low turnout," he tells supporters in a competitive upstate New York district. Terry explains that if mainstream voters shy away from the polls in record numbers this fall, as expected, extreme rightwing candidates will have an opportunity to win contests that were once beyond their reach.

Terry and his followers may be relying on prayer to keep turnout down. But the nation's most savvy Republican operatives are taking matters into their own hands. They're working a strategy that seeks to make the 1998 elections a private party to which most American voters are not invited.

"Politics is about two things: Mobilizing your voters, and not mobilizing the other side. Both are valid goals," says Bill McInturff , a Republican pollster. He argues that conservatives can score unprecedented victories this fall if they "reduce the juice"--lower the interest level to such an extent that the small percentage of voters who zealously back conservative causes can dominate.

The Republicans are leaving nothing to chance.

On any given day, in climate-controlled studios in suburban Washington and a handful of other locations around the country, carefully selected groups of adult men and women settle into comfortable chairs and insert their fingers into monitoring devices. The devices measure surges and downturns in their pulse rates as the nation's top political consultants show videotapes of candidates delivering speeches, present mock newscasts, and screen television commercials extolling or defaming particular politicians.

"It's all about message," explains Frank Luntz, the Republican pollster who drew up the list of ideas that became Newt Gingrich's "Contract With America." "You look for a message that gets your voters to the polls on election day. But it has to be well thought out, because you don't want to stir up your opponent's voters. You want them to stay home."

Since 1990, Luntz and his colleagues have presided over a steady decline in American voting participation, and a parallel process of shifting the political system further and further toward the right.

In 1994, Republicans helped hold voter turnout to just 38 percent of registered voters. In 1998, GOP strategists quietly acknowledge, they are shooting for a record low turnout of 35 percent or less.

They are well on their way to achieving that goal. Already, says Curtis Gans, founder of the Committee for the Study of the American Electorate, "voter turnout is sharply down in 1998." Gans analyzed turnout in primary elections this spring and summer and found that average turnout was 16.8 percent, half of what it was a quarter-century ago.

Primary turnout is down 14 percent just since 1994, says Gans. When the numbers are down in the primaries, they usually are down in November, he adds.

Low turnouts tend to favor Republicans--particularly conservative Republicans with a message that appeals to a small yet highly motivated core of activists. Democratic pollster Celinda Lake says she is worried that this year's minuscule turnout will be dominated by what she calls the "when God tells you to vote" crowd.

If the turnout actually drops to the 35 percent range or below, as now appears possible, Republican strategists figure they will be able to significantly expand their control in the Senate, improve their position in the House, maintain dominance of the nation's governorships, and win a sufficient number of state legislatures to guarantee control of the redistricting process that will follow the 2000 census.

"When things happen that make one side's partisans unhappy, they stay home," House Speaker Newt Gingrich, Republican of Georgia, told a Young Republican rally in Atlanta in August. "When they stay home, they stay home for the whole ticket. I believe this fall we're going to see a surprisingly big Republican victory almost everywhere in this country."

An August Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll of all adults found a clear preference for Democratic candidates and more liberal positions on the issues. But the same poll found that, among the most likely voters, Republican candidates and conservative positions had a solid lead.

So how do Republicans plan to reduce the juice? Here is the strategy:

Step one: Undercut the appeal of issues that favor Democrats in general and economic populists in particular. Republicans do this by offering warmed-over versions of Democratic plans to reform health care, protect Social Security, and improve public education--and by promoting them heavily, as they will do this fall with a planned $37 million national advertising campaign that will seek to blur distinctions between the parties.

"The idea is to take the power out of Democratic issues rather than confront them," says Washington Post columnist E.J. Dionne Jr., author of the bestselling book Why Americans Hate Politics. "If Republicans avoid too many fights, they figure they should do just fine." The key to what Dionne calls "me-too" politics is to persuade Democratic voters that, with both parties agreeing on key issues, there isn't much at stake.

In New York state, for instance, U.S. Senator Al D'Amato, a conservative Republican who faces a serious challenge in the fall, has suddenly emerged as a noisy proponent of consumer protection and women's health legislation.

Republicans are particularly pleased with their success in blunting the appeal of a Democratic initiative to pass a "Patients' Bill of Rights" that would curb HMO abuses. Republicans in the House and Senate came up with their own "Patients' Bill of Rights." The GOP plan is much weaker than the Democratic one, but Republican strategists believe it has created enough confusion to limit any Democratic advantage. This summer, U.S. Representative John Shadegg, an Arizona Republican who is a key party strategist, made the remarkable admission that, "with the task-force bill, we will largely deal with the political problem of health care. We may not solve the public policy problem, but it will move us in the right direction and give us political cover."

Step two: Undermine support for Democrats among key constituencies, such as women and African Americans. Republicans have placed special emphasis this year on courting African American voters, who since 1960 have been the most consistently pro-Democratic voting bloc in the nation. GOP leaders such as Gingrich have recruited African American candidates. And even the most rightwing Republicans are appealing to blacks. Ultraconservative South Carolina Senate candidate Bob Inglis, who earned a zero rating for support of civil rights issues while serving in the House, is now campaigning to remove the Confederate flag from the state capitol. "From the very first day of the campaign, I want to say 'Welcome' to black South Carolinians," declares Inglis. "I share an appreciation of the historic civil rights struggle, and I passionately agree that economic empowerment is the key to completing that work."

Step three: Let Monica Lewinsky work her magic. From the start, most Republican candidates have followed Luntz's advice--delivered in a memo widely circulated in GOP circles last January--to downplay talk of Presidential scandal. Luntz's theory is that the media will do the dirty work, causing Democrats to grow increasingly discouraged, while energizing prime Republican voting blocs.

After analyzing polling data from key precincts around the country, Democratic consultant Bob Beckel has concluded that the most likely voters this fall will be conservatives whose anger with Clinton has been crystallized by the scandal. Traditional Democratic voters, content with a reasonably good economy and turned off by the negative nature of contemporary politics, are less likely to vote. Political commentator Fred Barnes, executive editor of the conservative Weekly Standard, sums up the circumstance: "Democratic and Republican commentators and strategists have detected a clear GOP tilt, based largely on expected turnout this fall. The most motivated voters, those all but certain to go to the polls, are the ones furious with Clinton. They aren't happy with Congressional Republicans, but they're ready to register a protest against Clinton on election day by voting against Democratic candidates."

Republican strategists are taking advantage of voters' low spirits. After the President acknowledged to the nation in August that he had lied about his affair with the White House intern, Republicans launched a multimillion-dollar campaign to link Democratic contenders such as California Senator Barbara Boxer with the increasingly disparaged President.

Of particular concern are women voters, who in recent years have provided the margin of victory for Democrats in many races. This year, says veteran political reporter Jill Lawrence, "They may be so disgusted by the lurid sex and other details expected in the Starr report that they just stay home."

U.S. Representative Martin Frost, Democrat of Texas, admits, "It is possible this could cast a pall on the election."



Meanwhile, Republicans are mobilizing social conservatives who follow the lead of groups such as Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition and James Dobson's Focus on the Family.

For a time, early this year, it appeared as if Republicans faced a threat from Dobson. In meetings with top Republicans, Dobson attacked Newt Gingrich, Trent Lott, and other GOP Congressional leaders for failing to advance an aggressive Christian right agenda on issues such as gay rights, abortion, school prayer, and public funding of religious education.

If key Republicans didn't move quickly, Dobson said, he might just lead his followers out of the Grand Old Party--a prospect that would have spelled electoral disaster.

Republicans got the message. U.S. Representative John Linder, Republican of Georgia and one of Gingrich's top electoral strategists, circulated a confidential memo in April that said Republicans would lose control of the House and power in the Senate if they did not satisfy Dobson by throwing red meat to Christian conservatives.

That's exactly what they have done. Congressional Republicans quickly organized to promote a "Religious Freedom" amendment to the Constitution. If passed, that amendment would permit organized prayer in public schools for the first time since the 1960s. Republicans attached amendments restricting aid to family-planning organizations when the House and Senate took up spending authorizations for U.N. dues. The House also endorsed a pilot program that would use tax dollars to provide children with vouchers to attend private religious schools. And House leaders have intentionally scheduled another vote on banning "partial-birth" abortion just as the fall campaign season hits its stride.

But the big play to Dobson and his followers came on gay rights issues. Lott stepped forward with a carefully scripted statement saying homosexuality was equivalent to alcoholism and kleptomania. In the Senate, he moved to block the confirmation of James Hormel as ambassador to Luxembourg solely because the nominee is an openly gay man. And the House passed a measure that would block federal money for San Francisco and other cities that require contractors doing business with these municipalities to provide health insurance to the partners of their gay and lesbian employees.

"This is a very well-orchestrated political campaign against the gay community," says Winnie Stachelberg, political director of the Human Rights Campaign, a gay and lesbian organization. Policy isn't the point, says Stachelberg, since most of the GOP initiatives face the threat of a Clinton Administration veto or a court challenge. Rather, the onslaught is all about galvanizing the GOP base for November.



So why don't Democrats and their allies in organized labor counter the GOP with a sweeping get-out-the-vote drive?

Still shell-shocked from their 1994 losses, outgunned in the campaign-finance arena, and reeling from daily Lewinsky revelations, the Democrats have done little work when it comes to responding to the Republicans.

They have actually played into the Republicans' hand by emphasizing their own "targeted voter" strategies, which operate on the premise that it is cheaper and easier to win 16 percent of the electorate in a 30 percent turnout than it is to energize new voters. Plus, a campaign that emphasizes issues of broad popular appeal might turn off corporate contributors. That's something Democratic insiders fear since, as their party has moved further and further to the right, it has come to rely on the same Wall Street donor base as the Republicans. This leaves many voters with a clear sense that the political choices they make don't matter.

Ignoring populist appeals is a terrible blunder for the Democrats. Polls show majority support for basic progressive issues: universal health care, restraint on corporations, a graduated income tax, increased spending on public education, and fundamental campaign finance re-form.

As Ralph Nader puts it, "We don't have two parties any more. We have two versions of the Republican Party fighting over the crumbs that the special interests throw them and completely neglecting the great majority of Americans who don't even vote anymore."

Not long ago, different priorities prevailed. In 1986, when California liberal Alan Cranston faced a serious Republican challenge, he poured millions of dollars into get-out-the-vote efforts that brought hundreds of thousands of new voters to the polls. Cranston won. So, too, did dozens of other liberal Democrats in key races around the state.

By emphasizing high turnout strategies, Cranston said, Democrats freed themselves to be more progressive. Better to be beholden to broad ethnic and economic constituencies, he argued, than to big-money contributors and special-interest groups.

Could a big-turnout strategy work in the politically cynical 1990s? The answer is yes. But the proof doesn't come from Democrats.

This year, the best example of a candidate challenging the right's voter suppression strategies comes from a Republican. Kansas Governor Bill Graves angered social conservatives within his own party by supporting abortion rights and ditching other planks in the religious right platform. As a result, he faced an aggressive primary challenge this summer from David Miller, a former state legislator who had served as state Republican party chair.

Miller hoped his anti-abortion followers would assure him of victory in a low-turnout context. Graves countered by pouring hundreds of thousands of dollars into a sophisticated get-out-the-vote drive that even urged Democrats to switch parties and vote in the GOP race. The strategy worked. Kansas saw a near-record Republican primary turnout in August. The governor prevailed by a stunning 73-27 margin.

Some Democrats look at those numbers and wonder why their party isn't working to boost turnout with a populist message that could draw voters to the polls.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


John Nichols is the editorial page editor for The Capital Times in Madison, Wisconsin.

So Sheila, as we fight to make your and our votes count you won't be there? I'm sorry to hear that, but sometimes people need to give in to that "I need to retreat" feeling just to catch a breath ... I hope that's all it turns out to be for you.

I understand your frustration, but I've had my 'vote' trashed one too many times.

Perhaps the state and local elections still count here in Oregon but if the 'votes' are being tampered with by the repuglicons, then why bother??????

If no matter how you 'vote' the vote is changed without your permission, what good is your 'vote'?

These 'cons' will get what they want whether we vote or not so I don't see any reason to go to the trouble if it's not going to matter.

Because of our corrupt, undemocratic 'voting' system, we have the lowest voter turnout in the western world.
We can try to push the senate and congress to change the way our votes are taken and counted, to give us proportional representation, instant run off and get rid of the 'electoral collage' then voting will become worthwhile again, but for now with all the fraud, corruption and vote tampering, it's merely an exercise in futility.

We have been sold up the creek by the Democrats, have you forgotten it was CLINTON that gave us that job sucking NAFTA and GATT?? and most favored trade with China????

The Democrats shouldn't be wondering why they no longer get the votes and why progressives no longer bother to vote, we don't have ANY REPRESENTATION by either the Democrats(repuglicon lite) and the Repuglicons( far right wing fundi fascists)
The progressive vote is divided up between several parties, but with 'winner takes ALL' the 'winner' can get all the power with ony 30% of the vote even thought most people are trying to vote against them.
I have long ago left the so called 'Democratic' party because they no longer represent the interests of working class people, like the repuglicons, they follow the money, and it's not us.
I see NO WAY progressives can win in a undemocratic, fraudulent 'voting' system.

You can scream all you want, pester the senate and congress all you want, have demonstrations in the fenced off "free speech zones" but realize, YOUR VOICE WON'T BE HEARD!!! WE don't matter because we are not RICH.

As the very old saying goes, money talks,poverty walks.

I see no way out of our dilemma untill this country collapses and that's not far off with the cost of energy skyrocketing, our debts are in the trillions, the dollar is falling, our jobs are gone, and we are engaged in endless unjust, illegal and very expensive wars for oil.

Once other countries start dumping the dollar it's all over.
And that's now beginning to happen

We will enter a great depression that will make the crash of 1929 look like a hickup.

With oil prices rocketing upward, everything will rise in cost and businesses will fail by the thousands.

These cons are grabbing all they can because they know the party is over, they know once they have seized power by any means, there is nothing the congress or senate can or will do to stop their disasterous policies, they know with the decline of oil, the economy will tank no matter what they do or who's in power, so like the rats leaving a sinking ship, they first pig out on the ships stores while it's still there to grab.

That's why Kerry didn't fight the vote fraud, he didn't want to be in power on a sinking ship of state, let the cons take the blame.
He might also have been threatened to end up like Wellstone did, do you think that crash was an 'accident'??

We are in very deep trouble and not just because of vote fraud but because we are at the end of the oil age and 6+ billon people cannot survive without abundant, cheap oil.

You think things are bad now? just wait, things are going to get a whole lot worse.

When people are frightened, they will do anything to survive one more day and follow anyone who promisess a better future, that's how Hitler got into power and that's why the people of Germany supported him.

The sh*t has hit the fan!

After dominating the party in the 1990s, the centrist Democratic Leadership Council is struggling to maintain its identity and influence.

<<<<Snipped>>>>

"Neither my staff nor I have had any direct contact with anybody at the DLC since I began this campaign a year ago," Obama wrote. "I don't know who nominated me for the DLC list of 100 rising stars, nor did I expend any effort to be included on the list. ... I certainly did not view such inclusion as an endorsement on my part of the DLC platform." After realizing that his name appeared in the DLC's database, Obama asked to have it removed. The message was clear: The DLC needed Obama a lot more than Obama needed the DLC.

<<<SNIPPED>>>>

A Message From The DARK SIDE

http://www.gopnation.com/senate06_Commentary.asp

quote:

The Republicans

State /Senator /Started Tenure /2006 Forecast
Arizona Kyl 1995 Solid GOP
Indiana Lugar 1977 Solid GOP
Maine Snowe 1995 Solid GOP
Mississippi Lott 1989 Solid GOP
Missouri Talent 2003 Lean GOP
Montana Burns 1989 Solid GOP
Nevada Ensign 2001 Lean GOP
Ohio Dewine 1995 Lean GOP
Pennsylvania Santorum 1995 Lean GOP
Rhode Island Chaffee 1999 Lean GOP
Tennessee Frist* 1995 Vulnerable GOP
Texas Hutchinson 1993 Solid GOP
Utah Hatch 1977 Solid GOP
Virginia Allen 2001 Solid GOP
Wyoming Thomas 1995 Solid GOP


The Democrats

State /Senator /Started Tenure /2006 Forecast
California Feinstein 1993 Solid Dem
Connecticut Lieberman 1989 Solid Dem
Delaware Carper 2001 Solid Dem
Florida Nelson 2001 Vulnerable Dem
Hawaii Akaka 1990 Solid Dem
Maryland Sarbanes 1977 Solid Dem
Massachusetts Kennedy 1963 Solid Dem
Michigan Stabenow 2001 Lean Dem
Minnesota Dayton* 2001 Vulnerable Dem
Nebraska Nelson 2001 Lean Dem
New Jersey Corzine 2001 Solid Dem
New Mexico Bingaman 1983 Solid Dem
New York Clinton 2001 Solid Dem
North Dakota Conrad 1992 Lean Dem
Vermont Jeffords (I) 1989 Solid Independent
Washington Cantwell 2001 Lean Dem
West Virginia Byrd 1959 Solid Dem
Wisconsin Kohl 1993 Lean Dem

I am afraid that I must throw my support solidly behind SheilaCH. She is 100% right.

It doesn't matter one iota what platform the Democrats take. It doesn't matter whether they choose a left or left-of-center or centrist position. It doesn't matter who they run. It doesn't matter how much the Republicans screw things up. It doesn't matter how much money is raised or which way the unions side or even who captures the attention of media.

During the run-up to the 2004 election, many of my friends, mostly Dems or Independents, would ask me who was going to win the election. "Bush" I would say with all the confidence I could muster.

"But, John," they would invariably reply, "you hate Bush. How can you say that?"

"Well, you asked me, right?"

"Yes, of course. But Kerry is smarter. Kerry is more capable. Kerry is a war hero. And besides, the Republicans have screwed up to a fare-the-well."

"All true," I would respond. "But I still think Bush is going to win the election."

"But how?"

And I would stare at them for a moment in sheer incredulity. "Computer voting machines, that's how."

People, we're looking in the wrong direction. This is not a case of politics. If politics was all that mattered, Bush would still be digging dry holes out in the wastelands of Texas.

The neocons control the voting process. They will make the election come out any way they want until the people of this country rise up as one and put the goddamn bastards where they belong. IN JAIL!

Being a good Lefty and supporting your party, getting signatures on petitions, attending stop-the-war rallies and all the other silly things the tree-huggers usually do will not make a bit of difference.

Until we get so angry that we form a human ring a thousand deep around the congress and scream bloody murder, not one single thing is going to change.

The people of 1776 would understand. They would form a mob in the street and threaten to burn down the government house if they weren't heard. Lacking that, you might just as well stay home and watch "Friends" or pro wrestling.

If people in this country don't wake up soon, it's not going to matter.

PLEASE VOTE! If we want out votes to count we should
find ways to document how we voted. Take a picture of your ballot as it is filled out, vote two by two
you witness my vote and I witness yours, call from the ballot box and send a phone picture of the completed ballot to a central data collection source, every one in a party gets absentee ballots and mail them in (all Democrats not just some) or whatever party, voting by absentee ballot at party locations before the official election date and have the ballots delivered for count, have every voter get a printout of how his one vote effected the election at the time of his vote (should say one more vote for you candidates). If we voters are not 100 percent satisfied the election is fair then stage breakdowns on the freeways jamming them up with phony breakdowns during rush hour traffic
(run your car on 1 percent of the tank, or pull a
fuse, or something). Whose country is this anyway?

I am not trying to be a "wet blanket" in this discussion, believe me. It's just that the facts have to be faced. Your high school civics lessons were a lie!

Look around you. Look at what life is becoming in this country. People are being put out of work. Jobs are going overseas. Prices are going through the roof. Police and fire departments are being cut. Social programs are being gutted.

There is an extremely powerful and wealthy corporate elite that is running this country (hell, it always has, it's nothing new) except that now they've achieved so much control that they are able to operate with absolute impunity.

When you go to vote, you think you're being given a choice. You're not. This powerful elite, whom Winston Churchill referred to as The High Cabal, control industry, politics, the media. They tell you who you're going to vote for and no matter who wins the election, they win, because they've bought and paid for both sides.

You think that the Democrats are the answer. They are not. John Kerry is every bit as in the pocket of the elite as Bush. If Kerry had been elected, we'd still have guys dying for nothing in Iraq.

Until the people of the United States get angry, angry enough to march on Washington in numbers never seen before in history, until they get so angry they threaten to burn the government down if they are not heard, nothing is going to change.

I can understand how people are worried, mad, scared, etc. of the direction this country is going in. All I can say is look at this country's history. We have been in tight spots over and over again. It's the pendulum of ideology.

It seems like fascism is taking hold, but I'm really not that worried. Although it's a fight for sure, this is nothing new to America. Go back and read about Adam's tenure, or read about the late 19th century corp. power struggle.

We have a battle on our hands, but we will prevail. The power of the people will win.

.

quote:

It seems like fascism is taking hold, but I'm really not that worried. Although it's a fight for sure, this is nothing new to America. Go back and read about Adam's tenure, or read about the late 19th century corp. power struggle.

This is not like the 19th century.Our propaganda machine is far more sophisticated now, the corporations control what we hear, see and read and that's almost the same as controlling what you think.
We react to the world by the information we can receive from it and if that information is false, our reactions will be wrong.

We have been lied too, deceived and mislead for many decades now.
I know because I have watched it happen.

We have virtualy no power to change the course this country is on.
Our 'votes' are hacked, changed or deleted, our voice go unheard, our protests are confined to so called "free speech zones".

We are at the end of the oil age and those in power are grabbing all the wealth they can anyway they can,while they can, illegal wars, theft and changes in the law are how they steal the worlds and our wealth.

We are mere pawns in their game, our children-cannon fodder.
We are expendable 'consumers'.

As oil and natural gas go into their terminal decline, everything will become more expencive including food.
Food production will decline leading eventually to hunger then starvation, our population will crash as will that of most of the worlds population.

This is a very different time from the end of the 19the century, we can no longer look forward to a better future, we will have to endure a decline of our quality of life and a fascist,dictorial police state.

True these fascists won't be in power forever, but so what, by the time they have lost their control, there won't be anything left of the America we once thought we knew, we will be living like our ancestors did,only worse, those that survive the population crash and the wars for oil that is.

We have no where to go now but down.

Wake up folks, it's sunset in fundyland Amerikkka.

The road to defeat is paved with pessismism, no? A wise woman once told me the only time I have no power over a situation is when I allow myself to feel powerless ... besides what else you gonna do today?

quote:

besides what else you gonna do today?

Tell ya what 'Rama',because most of the electoral process is a fraud,protest is confined to barb wire enclosed 'free speech zones' and the criminals have taken over this government, I'm preparing for the worse, a economic collapse.

My garden is growing, I have a nice stock of bullion and I live where if some other country decides to toss a bomb at us I'm very unlikely to have to dodge it.

They may be able to fool most of the people most of the time, but they will never be able to fool all of the people all of the time no matter how much they control the media.

I've tried for decades to believe that we could change the system through peacefull means, but I have also seen the futility of using the electoral system as it is today.

I fear only a economic collapse and a bloody 'civil' war can change things and by the time the 'masses' wake up, the collapse will be upon us and the rich criminials will have run off with all the 'loot'.

Violence is the only path open to us now and even that may cause more damage than it fixes.

But when there is nothing more to lose, that's what will happen.

http://Thomas Legislative Information

Sheila, you are rapidly becoming my favorite Joe Btfsplk character on this board. (No gender insult intended here please, it's only the concept that counts)




This is an absolute treasure:

quote:

Violence is the only path open to us now and even that may cause more damage than it fixes.

The U.S. Government Printing Office disseminates official information from all three branches of the Federal Government.

quote:

Sheila, you are rapidly becoming my favorite Joe Btfsplk character on this board. (No gender insult intended here please, it's only the concept that counts)

Very cute Ren, just add about 200 lbs,long grey hair and not so long a nose and you got me!

Yes, I feel the current situation is hopeless.
How else could I feel when I look at the whole picture, hacked, fraudulant 'elections', greedy, lying 'fundies' in power, the imminent decline of oil and natural gas and everything that depends upon it which is everything and of course I feel hopeless-how come you don't?

Given the apparent situation, how would you get out of this mess?

No one has a technology that will replace oil and natural gas when it's gone.

How can you change the government when the crooks are running it?

How can you get a democracy in a country who's voting system is worthless?

I don't see any hope of things changing untill things get so bad that the majority of the people revolt, and what will that get them? night sicks, tazers, steel toed boots,fire hoses and jail and the thugs will still be in control.

For every one step forward that's been made, the government has brought us backwards two.

That's why I feel 'voting' cannot change anything, it's been tried and it's failed again and again.

Do you have that health care card that Clinton held up and wanted every American to have?
Another empty promess, like thousands of others that those in power have made to get our 'votes'.

Now they don't even need our 'votes' to get in power, they just hack the 'voting' machines, disinfranchise voters, add 'ghost' voters to vote for them and have the 'voting' machines give the opposition votes to them, that's how Kerry and Gore 'lost' the elections.

The only good thing I can see coming out of the decline of oil and natural gas in the reduction in the power of this government, jobs will have to return to the US because importing products will become too expencive, we will have to make things localy and grow our food localy but there will still be a huge die off of us in the future.

How soon? who knows, maybe twenty-fourty years in the future maybe sooner.

A famous person once said," power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutly".

Now that we have become the only 'super power' we can see how true that is and the only way to bring those arrogant unelected thugs down is to cut off the source of their power-OIL or by causing a collapse of the dollar.

BTW, what's a "Btfsplk"?

Sheila,
If you have long grey hair, then surely you must remember Al Capp and his Lil' Abner comic strip. Joe Btfsplk was one of his beloved characters. As in the Picture.

Here's the kind of thing I recommend for the coming demise of civilization, I'm working on my own version with some friends of mine:

Rhizome Collective

I'm into creating a participatory democracy when the smoke clears. If any of us are still standing.

Well Ren, there's a lot of groups doing much the same thing your doing, getting together like minded people to prepare for the coming collapse of the economy.

Some are listed in the news groups on the Yahoo! group 'RunningOnEmpty2' and 'RunningOnEmptyCascadia' and others.

There are co-op's simular to your 'Rhizome Collective' in Washington, Oklahoma city and other places.
My little town on the south coast of Oregon is still in denial about the decline of oil and natural gas and how it will affect their way of life, but with gas now at $2.19 and diesel at $2.69 a gallon, denial will be difficult to maintain.

So while my neighbors drive their huge,lumbering gas guzzling SUV's to the store for a ciggarett, I'm enlarging my vegi garden, my front yard is planted in natives and can also be converted to a vegi garden if needed.
I have a 'trike' to peddle my ass around and my car is a small gas sipping 1991 2 seater Honda CRX and I combine my trips to save gas.
The web is a great resource to gather information and supplies for the comming troubles.
I am buying only open pollenated seeds for my vegies, I use only hand tools and 'piss' for fertilizer as well as compost and manure.

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I'm into creating a participatory democracy when the smoke clears. If any of us are still standing.

Rest assured, some of us will still be standing, at least some of the rich will still be around and a few serfs to serve them, then again, perhaps the serfs will finaly have their revenge upon the rich.

You might like to keep up with the energy news by reading WWW.energybulletin.net/news.php
They gather news from all over the world and post it on their site and they have links to the original site.

The government has become our enemy, we are on our own.

Shiela, it must be miserable to be you. Hiding under a rock peeking out occasionally waiting for the sky to fall. What a miserable way to live.
If things are so terrible here, leave. send us a postcard from France, or wherever telling us how sweet life is.

Thank you for not voting. We probably vote opposite on issues\candidates so your's doesn't cancel mine out. Don't vote, don't complain.

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Thank you for not voting. We probably vote opposite on issues\candidates so your's doesn't cancel mine out. Don't vote, don't complain.

I did "vote" but what is it about fraudulant,hacked and changed 'votes' don't you understand??

Our 'votes' are being tampered with by government hacks and the 'voting' machine owners, not in all states but enough for them to get in power who they want.

Tens of thousands of new 'voters' showed up in 2004 to vote Bush and his gang of lying thugs OUT, but thanks to Dibold and other owners of paperless 'voting' machines, they gave the 'vote' to Bush!!

I'm not 'hiding under a rock' and I don't view Fox 'news' like you probabley do.
Most of what tries to pass as 'news' in this country is propaganda put forth by the corporations that own the stations.

I suspect your the one who has their head in the sand because you seem to be unawhere of how fraudulant our 'voting' system has become or perhpaps your a Bush supporter and think the 'election' results are just fine.

I hope your still smiling when the stock market crashes and the housing bubble bursts.

Sheila, I really have to agree with you. I feel much the same about the situation and I also feel the same frustration you do when it comes to trying to get your anger across to others out there.

On the one hand, you have the lefties and the tree-huggers saying "Well, we'll all join a commune, organize, support the Democrats and everything will be just fine."

On the other you have the Republicans who say "What's the problem. The President has everything well in hand, God's in his heaven, everything will be just fine.

Meanwhile, the poor little down-trodden minority of Americans who are reality-based look around at this great majority of sheep who think this is the way things are supposed to be and wonder "Did I get off at the wrong stop?"

There is a terrible malaise in the country that seems to be spreading like a plague. It's called denial or "head-in-the-sand syndrome." It's the inability to see that this country is not the storybook nirvana we like to think it is and never has been. We have become addicted to happiness. If we get a pain we take an aspirin; if we feel frustrated, we turn on pro wrestling or NASCAR. We don't want to face the possibility that there may be something drastically wrong with "the land of the free and the home of the brave."

I have this fantasy that our founding fathers miraculously return to see what has become of the country they created. What a surprise it would be. They were the products of the Age of Reason. They believed in a Creator, but they did not think that the Creator had the time or the inclination to micromanage man's every thought and deed.

They would be appalled at the form of barbaric religious fundamentalism that has taken hold in this country. They would be crestfallen at the ignorance -call it what it is - IGNORANCE, that has swept like locust across the great wide plain of this fair land. And when they saw how their wonderful Constitution had been shredded without so much as a murmur from the citizenry, I believe they would be only too happy to return to their graves.

I am 58 years old and will have shuffled off this mortal coil before too long. Not too much of what's to come will effect me, and if it does, so what. But I have two wonderful daughters and four grandchildren. What kind of world will they inhabit? That's why I'm mad as hell. That's why I try every day to grab someone by the lapels and shake some sense into them.

The other day I was in an impromptu conversation with a group of folks at the local Starbucks. I got the conversation around to one of my favorite conspiracy theories, 9/11. I held forth for some time on the mounting evidence that the story that we were told was a goddamn lie. I went on and on showing that the government of our fair land was actually behind the events of that horrible day, that it was done for a specific reason and that the bastards got away with it because they counted on the stupidity and total lack of inquisitiveness of the people of this country (rightly, I might add).

Anyway, halfway through my little diatribe, a woman shouts out, "I think you should stop this conversation right now!" Everyone looked at her and she eventually got up and stormed out.

Now that's precisely what I'm talking about. She wanted to hear the fairy tale version of history. She wanted to be soothed with the story of the America of the white picket fence and the two-car garage.

Jesus H. Christ, what's it going to take to get people angry? How much more of this must we put up with before a critical mass of the citizenry rises up and does it civil duty, yes, it's civil duty, to throw the bastards out! Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Ashcroft, Libby, Negroponte, Rice...they should be in jail, people. IN JAIL.

Shela, we're supposed to get paper trials in 2006. There were few if any discrapancies this time in the places that had them. Their stategy in 2006 might be to just discourage us. Bev Harris and others are working towards restoring Democracy. That being said, as activists maybe the best work we can do now is outside electoral politics. Cultural or other change, as I did with my thread "Selling liberal Christanity" might be a more constructive path.

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They would be appalled at the form of barbaric religious fundamentalism that has taken hold in this country. They would be crestfallen at the ignorance -call it what it is - IGNORANCE, that has swept like locust across the great wide plain of this fair land. And when they saw how their wonderful Constitution had been shredded without so much as a murmur from the citizenry, I believe they would be only too happy to return to their graves.

Sad isn't it, what so many of us have become, wilfully ignorant, dito-heads, refusing to see there's a problem because problems don't fit into their belief system.

When this country collapses, they will be left in the dust wondering what happened.

I'll still vote in local elections as long as I think there is some chance the votes are being counted and do count but both the Dem's and Repuglicons are in the pocket of the corporations and third parties are essencialy cut off from the electoral process.

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I got the conversation around to one of my favorite conspiracy theories, 9/11. I held forth for some time on the mounting evidence that the story that we were told was a goddamn lie. I went on and on showing that the government of our fair land was actually behind the events of that horrible day, that it was done for a specific reason and that the bastards got away with it because they counted on the stupidity and total lack of inquisitiveness of the people of this country (rightly, I might add).

You not the only person that thinks 9/11 was a inside job, too many inconsistancies, like were was our airforce jets that have always before scrambled when a plane went off course? why did the towers and tower 7 fall so neatly into their footprints?, why wasn't there ANY evidence that a passenger plane flew into the Pentigon?
They needed a 'new Pearl Harbor' and they got a new 'Reichstag'.
I knew before our attack upon Iraq that there were no weapons of mass destruction and told my congressman so, I knew this administration was lieing to us and continues to lie to us.

We have a UNELECTED fascist dictator in power and there is nothing 'our' representatives can or will do about it.

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Now that's precisely what I'm talking about. She wanted to hear the fairy tale version of history. She wanted to be soothed with the story of the America of the white picket fence and the two-car garage.

Jesus H. Christ, what's it going to take to get people angry? How much more of this must we put up with before a critical mass of the citizenry rises up and does it civil duty, yes, it's civil duty, to throw the bastards out! Bush, Chaney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Ashcroft, Libby, Negroponte, Rice...they should be in jail, people. IN JAIL.

I don't think people will wake up untill it's too late, when food production falls and people are dying in the streets and their homeless because they could no longer pay the rent/morgage and their kids are dying in another illegal, unecessary 'war'.

They will persist in living in dreamland untill living becomes a nightmare they can no longer ignore.
We have entirely too many 'believers' in this country and not enough THINKERS!

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All great truths begin as blasphemy

Nice 'signature'!!

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We should focus not on the rise of fascism,but it's fall.As the state's oppression gets more clumsy,beaurocratic,and out of touch with reality, and the people's will for freedom increases, peace will guide the planet, as never before.

Trying to depose these fascists will be most difficult with such a corrupt electoral system and violence tends to be chaotic and unplanned doing more damage then it fixes.

Sure we can try to hold peacfull demonstrations but how effective will that be if we're confined to so called 'free speech zones' behind a barb wire topped enclosure??
How can we wake people up to oppose these thugs when over 90% of the media is owned by a few powerfull conservative corporations?

Thank goodness Thom Hartmann is getting on more stations with his message but how many folks are able to hear him durring working hours?
Berni Ward on KGO is also a good listen and he's on late at night and can be heard over most of the country.

I am royaly pissed off at the last three 'election' that allowed these fascist to get in power and even more pissed off that our so called 'representatives' can't or won't do anyting to impeach or arrest these lying thugs and throw them out of office and into prison where they belong.

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Selling liberal Christanity" might be a more constructive path.

Christianity like all organized superstitions is part of the problem not the solution.

As long as people remain 'believers' instead of critical thinkers, we will forever be unable to think and act rationaly.Religion is irrational and incourages irrational thoughts and beliefs.\
The sooner religion is regulated to the dustbin of history the better.

Rahm plots '06 attack on ethics
By Hans Nichols

Democratic House leaders are casting about for squeaky-clean congressional candidates � even if they�re long shots � to challenge prominent GOP incumbents who have been tainted by news reports of their allegedly unseemly connection to lobbyists.

Christianity in any form is not the answer.

Let us hope that the day will come when superstition of all forms is put, quietly, to rest. We are responsible for our lives and the decisions we make. You do not need fairy tales about a big gu in the sky to ensure that people live the right way. Our feet are placed upon the ground for a reason. No ghosts need apply.

My field is military history and I could regale you for hours with stories of the bloodbaths caused by religion.

Just this morning I heard a great interview with Terry Jones, formerly of "Monty Python," and he talked about an historical novel he is writing about Geoffrey Chaucer. He said that when Henry IV deposed Richard II, he appointed as Archbishop of Canterbury and also the king's chancellor one Thomas Arundel who might well be thought of as the Karl Rove and Henry Kissinger of his day.

During the reign of Richard, it was not unusual for the writers and wits of the day to poke fun at the church and the churchmen, Chaucer's favorite subject. When Henry took power, he crushed all intellectual opposition and forced a tight form of theocracy on the intellectuals of the day. He even created an amorphous enemy he called "heretics," what we might, in our day, call "terrorists."

Sound familiar?

Christianity is not the problem we face -- it is the people who think / do stupid things in the name of Christianity. If we were acting truly consistent with the teachings of Christ, we would be loving our neighbors, helping the less fortunate, not going into pre-emptive wars, etc., etc., etc. The people who are twisting the concepts of Christ are the problem -- "I have given my life to Jesus, but damn those homosexuals;" "Jesus leads my way, but we need to be executing 16 year-old criminal offenders:" "Jesus is my Lord, but we need to kill all those Muslims terrorists;" "Praise the Lord, but let's give huge tax breaks to the rich -- and make them permanent:" etc.

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Christianity is not the problem we face

Christianity is only one of the irrational superstitions that are a major problem in the world today.
Religion makes people do silly and irrational things because they have been tought to beleive that if they do what the 'holy' men tell them to do, they will be rewarded forever after they die.
What a great con job that has been!

How many people would be willing to die for a stupid cause if they knew that dead was just DEAD and you didn't go anywhere or do anything after you died?
Not very many but tell some poor gullable fool that he will get 72 beautifull virgins or paradice forever after death and he will do what ever he is told to do, especially if he is ignorant,poor,hungry and unemployed.

Religion tells people to keep having children because 'god' wants them to, the truth is it's the 'holy' men who want more believers to give them 'donations' to the 'church' and so what if most of those excess children die of hunger and disease, enough live to provide the 'holy' men with a nice living.

Religion is a form of mind control, it makes people believe in impossible things, like gods, miricles, evil spirits, prayer, and it makes them do foolish things like mumble the same words over and over again, it makes them fly planes into buildings or blow themselves up-stupid!
Politicians also use religion to control the 'masses', isn't Bush a man 'chosen' by 'god' to lead this nation?
Many 'believers' beleive so.

I know we didn't vote for him.

They claim to value 'life' and yet they think nothing of killing tens of thousands of innocent civilians, their merely 'collateral damage' in the way of their empire building.

Religion has cause more suffering than any other idea humans have had.
The world will be far better off without religion!
BTW,Jesus didn't write one word in the bible, what was written about him was written long after his death and even then, those writers couldn't agree upon what he had said.

Did Jesus realy say "You must not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword."

It was also claimed that he could heal the sick by casting out 'devils', but devils don't exist and so cannot cause disease.
Was the 'son of god' ignorant of the cause of disease??

Jesus was merely another mythological character like so many other mythological characters imagined by so called 'holy' or 'god' men to dupe others into following them and supporting them.
Isn't it time we stopped believing in the impossible and see the world as it realy is?

Futility is futile.

Look, all this whining and moaning about how bad things get unless someone else does something is really cheesing me off.

What the "it's futile" position says is 'we're not smart enough to fix this. We can't outsmart our opponents, so why try?" How nice for them to have one less opponent to cope with.

How many volunteer statistiticians would it take to conduct region spot-checks of the vote? How many of you would volunteer your services one day every two years to assist in an effort to independently monitor the vote?

As far as I'm concerned, throwing in the towel is exactly the worst possible thing to do. As long as there's a chance that fraud can be exposed, we ought to be fighting to expose it in every way possible, not stay home on our asses and fume about how bad things are.

Just my $0.02 worth. And no disprespect for the understandable feelings of futility. Go ahead and get it out of your system. We need every bit of help we can now. Do not imagine that unopposed it will not become far more intolerable if nothing is done.

So what about it? Independent exit polling?

And seriously, reality has a nasty way of biting you in the ass. People are waking up. It's time to create opposition, not time to quit. It's even possible that polls would make rigging an election impossible because the fraud would be so transparent.

The job is grass-roots education, and setting the talking points and agenda using the media we have at our disposal. This includes the Internet (a completely democratic medium), the mushrooming progressive talk stations, and the few big newspapers that still risk printing stuff that might be called seditious because it's true.

If you ask me, the reason we're in the mess we're in today isn't because of vote fraud (though there probably is a fair bit of that), but because liberals and progressives don't stand up tall and say "yes, I'm a liberal, because I'm smart and know history" and have the facts to back it up.

We start standing tall, engaging in face-to-face dialog, and re-assert OUR values (which are human values rather than profit values), in the marketplace of ideas, we will win.

Once we have the majority, any ruling minority will have a tough time remaining in power by vote fraud, and if they use violence on other Americans you can bet they'll go down even faster.

In fact, the side to use violence first will probably lose in the end.

Oh, and another thing.

It took the equivalent of crowbars and blowtorches to pry it loose, but the truth is getting out.

We now know the Administration has 52+ specific warnings months before 9/11, despite the fact that the Administration used every trick and power at its disposal to conceal the fact.

Americans are asleep, not stupid. This stuff is being pried loose, and it's necessary to keep going for blood over and over relentlessly until they bleed enough so we remember that they're only human.

Foolish tyrants almost always go down in flames, no matter how invulnerable they seemed at the peak of their power. These guys are hardly going to escape that eventual fate.

Jimmy Carter to Chair Election Reform Commission
March 24, 2005

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Former President Jimmy Carter will lead a bipartisan commission to examine problems with the U.S. election system, American University's Center for Democracy and Election Management said on Thursday.

Carter, a Democrat whose Carter Center has monitored more than 50 elections around the world, will co-chair the private commission with Republican James Baker, who served as Secretary of State under President George H. W. Bush.

Former Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, a Democrat who lost his seat in the 2004 election, will also participate.

"I am concerned about the state of our electoral system and believe we need to improve it," Carter said in a statement. He said the group will assess "issues of inclusion" in federal voting and propose recommendations to improve the process.

"We will try to define an electoral system for the 21st century that will make Americans proud again," he said.

Though disputes over recounts and voter eligibility marred the 2000 U.S. presidential election, international monitors in place in November 2004 reported the polls were mostly fair.

Still, concerns emerged about exceedingly long lines that kept voters from the polls in several states including Ohio, whose 20 electoral college votes ultimately decided the election in President Bush's favor.

The Center for Democracy and Election Management, which will organize the work of Carter's commission, said the group would hold two public hearings -- the first on April 18 at American University in Washington and the second at Houston's Rice University in June.

The Commission on Federal Election Reform aims to produce a report to Congress on its findings by September.
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

Frustration is a natural function caused by the feeling of helplessness. But frustration sometimes coalesces into anger, anger into rage and rage into action. The process has worked many times in the history of this country and, I believe, it is time for this process to take hold of matters once again.

So many of us have been lulled into this incredible New-Agey somnabulence. You know the drill: meditate, contemplate, think positively and all will be well. We look for a savior in red, white and blue, a true champion who will tell us what we need to do. Well, boys and girls, HE'S NOT COMING! He has another engagement or something.

We are our saviors and when enough of us get pissed off and frustrated and sick and tired, perhaps we will form a mob of two or three million and march on Washington, torches raised high. Then we'll get some action.

quote:

posted March 25, 2005 12:57 AM
Jimmy Carter to Chair Election Reform Commission
March 24, 2005

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Former President Jimmy Carter will lead a bipartisan commission to examine problems with the U.S. election system, American University's Center for Democracy and Election Management said on Thursday.

Well let's hope it's real action and not the usual 'hot air' that results in NO results.

I've heard too many empty promisses from politicians before and I'm too old, poor and disabled to do a march on Washington though I have sent scathing e-mails to 'my' representatives about vote fraud, paperless 'voting' machines that voted for Bush against the will of the 'voter',and that Bush was NOT 'elected' TWICE! and I'm very pissed off about it!

We may still be able to change things at the state level in most states but the federal 'elections' are a fraud especially with that archaic 'electoral collage'.

WE also need massive millitary cuts instead of cutting services like education,health care for the poor, health car for vets and our parks.

The decline of oil and natural gas will slowly strangle this governments wars for empire and reduce us to just another poor overpopulated country.

If we think that our elected (or unelected) representatives are going to do anything to save us from the disaster we are facing, then we are more deluded than I first thought. Your "representative" in congress (I care not a whit who) is interested in only one thing: getting reelected.

Have we allowed ourselves to become so removed from reality that we believe that a congress that voted 98-1 and 357-66 for the Patriot Act is the least bit interested in your little problems. Keeee-rist!

Jimmy Carter? Take some time to study up on Jimmy Carter. You'll learn an awful lot you don't know about the man whose national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski formulated the strategy that the neocons are not implementing in the Middle East and Central Asia.

By the way, while I'm on the Patriot Act, google the Victory Act of 2003. Read it, all of it. It's been called an Adolf Hitler Wish List. If the Victory Act becomes the law of the land, and I see no reason why it won't, you can kiss your "free country" goodbye.

Then my original assesment of our situation holds true, we are toast!!

As usual those in power care only for themselves and not for their 'beloved' country and the people they claim to represent.
Like the kings of old, they are in power to enrich themselves and the rest of us are 'tax payers' and 'cannon fodder'.

So why are there so many 'bubbas' still driving around huge 4X4 trucks, with Chinese made 'American' flags on the cab and a yellow ribbon that reads "support our (Jack-booted,neo-nazi)troops"?

Will it take the collapse of this economy and gas rationing to finaly wake them up or are they a hopeless case, forever doomed to "believe in" impossible things?

quote:

By the way, while I'm on the Patriot Act, google the Victory Act of 2003. Read it, all of it. It's been called an Adolf Hitler Wish List. If the Victory Act becomes the law of the land, and I see no reason why it won't, you can kiss your "free country" goodbye.

What "free country"? we have never been "free".
The so called "patriots act" will finish turning this country into a police state run by a fascist dictator.
I see no reason why the "Victory act" won't become law either since "our" representatives didn't do anything to stop the "patriots act" or the election fraud or our illegal, unjustified 'war' and occupation of Iraq for OIL.
We can "kiss our asses" goodby!

Ponderings from the precipice: I think Thom Hartmann is the only guy I'd vote for other than Nader for President. I wonder if he has any interest in running?

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Ponderings from the precipice: I think Thom Hartmann is the only guy I'd vote for other than Nader for President. I wonder if he has any interest in running?

Not if he want's to live to be a old man.

Too many progressives who tried to run for office or who were in office have been murdered and that murder was made to look like a 'accident'.

The criminals are in power and nothing short of civil war or a collapse of the economy can chuck them out.
I think we are very close to a collapse of our economy.
The dollar is falling, interest rates are rising, oil and natural gas are declining and rising in price and all we make here anymore are death machines.

As more countries move out of the dollar, we move ever closer to the crumbling edge of the precipice.
We are toast!!

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I think we are very close to a collapse of our economy.

Yep...a brave new world is on our collective horizon...its just a matter of time.

And we don't have much time left.

When oil and gas decline enough to affect food production, electric generation and transportation, a brave new world will indeed be thrust upon us.

It will be chaos!

Riots, looting, murder, mass migration, vigilate 'justice', starvation, disease and eventually, death for billions of people around the world.

People will be forced into the county side to work on farms to grow food the old fashioned way, hard manual labor.

We will go from a hi-tech economy to a agrarian economy.

The skies will be dark again, the freeways empty, the burned out cities lifeless, the suburbs burned down to expose more farmland.

Our dreams of endless 'progress' and 'sustainable development' will also grow dim as the energy supply declines.

We had best enjoy life while we still can for we will never live so richly again.

A 'brave new world' indeed!

An ill wind is blowing across this country. That wind blows the seeds of destruction and threatens to undermine the system of checks and balances described in the Constitution and the fundamental rights we hold dear. Your commitment to defend our Constitution from the so-called "nuclear option" is more important than ever.


I carry a pocket-sized edition of the Constitution with me every where I go, whether I'm back home in West Virginia or speaking out on the Senate floor. Now you can too. You can download and print the DSCC's exclusive personal Constitution by clicking here:


http://www.dscc.org/constitution


Senate Republicans are ready to nuke debate in the Senate and stand the Senate rules on their head by severely restricting our right to filibuster these nominees. They want to change the rules in the middle of the game so they can force on us far right-wing judges, all in an effort to gag the world's greatest deliberative body.


We cannot let them do it.


Their view of the Constitution is based on the opinions of a fancy Washington law firm. Our view of the Constitution is based on the plain words of the Framers who wrote it. Now you can use your own personal Constitution to share those powerful words with your friends and family.


http://www.dscc.org/constitution


It is up to us to spread the word. I know that you've already signed the DSCC's petition, but now you must be the new Paul Revere and tell your friends and neighbors about what is happening in the Senate. Tell them that our free speech is under attack. Tell them that our system of checks and balances is under attack. Tell them that the Senate should not be simply a rubber stamp for right wing judges.


Some say we don't need 200 years of American history. According to opponents of the filibuster, 200 years of history is a bore. It's simply pass�. Old hat. They say the Constitution is nothing more than stale bread. Opponents of free speech see no need to rely on Jefferson, Franklin, Madison, or Hamilton. We know better.


We won't be muzzled by those who want to silence us. Delay, deliberation, and debate may be a waste of time to some, but it's free speech and the American way to all of us who love our country and our Constitution. The best way to defend the Constitution is to elect more Democrats to the United States Senate. That is the sole mission of the DSCC. You can help in that effort by sharing your own personal Constitution with your friends and family.


http://www.dscc.org/constitution


We must preserve free speech and the rights of the minority. There must be no gag rule for the United States Senate.


Sincerely,


Senator Robert Byrd

What famous military tactician said of the Russian army, "an army of a million men without a head is not an army." This seems to be the plight of the radical middle. It is without voice and without champion.
Given that the vote was hacked, change the way we vote and discern the fraud in the past elections, then do something about it. Before the election, there were faint voices warning that the mechanics of the vote endangered the election. It was sloppy that it was allowed to continue. It was faint-hearted that noone did anything. Intead, we ran like rabbits as soon as the mud started to fly.
After all was said and done, it was universally conceded Gore won the Florida election in 2000. In any other democracy, there would have been a vote of no confidence, at least a new election or Bush thrown in jail. We did nothing. Freedom isn't free. I've seen enough die for this democracy to know that fact.
There has been enough time to lick your wounds and let them heal. It is time to re-enter the fray. If you can't do that, I wonder if you aren't really a mole for the other side. Doom and gloom serve only to embolden the Roves of the world. Even with hacked votes and political repression, this was one closest elections. Fix it. Rage against the machine. It is our country that we will lose. It is not theirs, it is ours.
Lastly, don't hide in a cave or "Turn on, tune in and drop out." A generation for the best of motives and purist of hearts, washed their hands of the deception and fraud of american politics and life after Vietnam. They had more reason to do so and far more powerful enemies to persuade them that it was futile and dirty and "just not worth it." While they dreamt, the neo-cons became councilmen and Senators, judges and prosecutors. Slowly little by little, the fruits of a hard fought gains and change were picked away. Little steps that we all shrugged off, led us farther from democracy and closer to the snare.
This has been twenty years in the making. We won't undo this network of evil in a day, a month or a year. But we must not cower, or they will attack. We dare not run, or by default, they've won. If we don't hold up our part of the line, the hordes pour in and surround those brave enough to stand and fight.
"There is nothing to fear but fear itself."

Compassionate.Conservative.Com
.
A strongly pro-Bush site with information on his policies and personal background.

"compassionate conservative"? an oxymoron if there ever was!

How can we stop these criminals when our so called 'representatives' claim they can do nothing because the criminals are in power??

If they can't do anything, WHO or WHAT CAN???

How can we change things if the 'vote' is a fraud?

How can we change anything if 'our' representatives can't or won't do anything but whine?

Worse yet, our economy and the once allmighty dollar are on the verge of collapse.
When that happens, people will be more conserned where their next meal is coming from than about the hacked, crooked, 'elections'.

Thanks to Cheney and Bush and their illegal wars to seize control of what remains of the worlds oil reserves, we have far more enemies than before.
And they all need oil.
Some have nukes.
The dollar continues to fall and other countries are moving away from investing in bonds and the dollar.
If Venezuela and Iran start pricing their oil in Euros, it's all over, our economy will crash and our ability to buy enough oil from the 'free' market will drop like a stone.
It now takes about $1.50 to buy one Euro.

We are in one hell of a mess and I don't see any way out of it.
At least not peacefully.

It would seem our only hope is if the military higher ups get pissed off enough at how these cons have used and abused them in fraudulant 'wars' and mistreated the wounded at home to take those political thugs out!

Drinking Liberally
Promoting democracy one pint at a time.
66 communities in 31 states plus DC.

Bob Casey to run for U.S. Senate in 2006
March 4, 2005


Pennsylvania State Treasurer Bob Casey said today that he will run for the U.S. Senate in 2006 against incumbent Republican Senator Rick Santorum. Casey will make a formal announcement of his candidacy at a later date.

http://www.OpenSecrets.org

Our attempts to 'vote' will be worthless unless we can get rid of those corporate owned and controlled voting machines and vote counters.

As long as the source code on these machines is secret and can only be acessed by the company that makes them, our 'vote' is open to fraud just as your votes were hacked in 2004 by those same corporations who gave Bush our votes against our will.

We must demand a end to corporate control of our vote!!!
Even here in Oregon, our votes are counted by corporate controlled computers.

Our country has become a corporate controlled fascist dictatorship.
Democracy here is DEAD!

Unless we can remove corporate control from 'our' voting system, 'voting' will only be a exercise in futility.

I never thought I would think this way, but with every passing day I am coming to the realization that without a revolution - and I MEAN a revolution - this republic is doomed.

When I returned from the Nam, I swore that I would never raise my hand against another man again unless it was life or death. Well, I'm afraid it's coming to that.

Our founding fathers told us that when a form of government becomes oppressive, it is the right, indeed, it is the duty of the people to free themselves and to form another more conducive to their liberty.

Anyone who is able to look at our country today, at its government and its prospects for the future with any degree of optimism is living in a fool's paradise. The time will come - indeed, I'm not certain it isn't already here - when liberty is just a memory.

I would love to say that I am optimistic. I am not.

I think our only hope for a 'sucessful' revolution is if the military gets sick and tired of being used as cannon fodder for corporate interests.

They should know dam well by now they are not defending 'freedom', or 'our' country but the interests of greedy, power hungry corporations and corrupt politicians.

We the people have no hope of overthrowing this corrupt government as long as the military defends it.
Only if the military rebels can we hope for a meaningfull change.

Inspite of the meaningless deaths of 'our' troops in Iraq, the military is only a little short in it's recrutement objectives.

Those kids volunteering for military service must be dumber than dirt or more ignorant than a mole.
After the wide exposure of the fact that Iraq had no WOMD, no air force, no navy, and was no threat to us, any moron should be able to see we were lied to about why we had to pre-emptivly attack Iraq.

Why would anyone in their right mind volunteer to be cannon fodder in Iraq for nothing??

Those in upper echelons in the military must be angry at how their being exploited and how vets are not getting the help they were promised.

How much longer will they put up with that and this corrupt, unelected reckless administration?

I hope not much longer.

Military recruiting has been quite low. People are starting to realize this war is not a just cause.

The folks who put Bush back in power need to either disavow him and his foreign policy, or they need to send their children into the military, and they need to push the idea of a pay as you go policy for Iraq. A pay as you go policy could be achieved by having an income tax surcharge added to everyone's tax bill each year to cover the cost of the war.

I'm surprized that they get as many recruits as they have.
Of course our so called 'news' media makes it easier by either having enertainment or propaganda trying to pass as 'news'.

Dam little leaks out that those in power would rather we don't know about, like 'peak oil and gas',prisoner torture and the Koran insident.

Notice how when that small plane got too close to Washington DC they ran everyone off to safety but never bothered to inform Bush while he was out riding his tricycle, they claimed he was out riding a bicycle but I doubt if that crook could keep upright on a bike.
Everyone that's not brain dead knows Cheney is the real power behind the 'throne'.

I think TPTB are out to grab all the wealth they can before the economy totally tanks and the riots start as everything shoots up in cost as oil goes into it's terminal decline and the masses are left to starve in the cold and the dark.

Dick Cheney has known for years that oil and natural gas would soon be going into their final decline and everything in this economy,including food,heat, transportation and air conditioning depends upon cheap, abundant oil and natural gas and those days are ending.

Angry, hungry, cold people don't make good cannon fodder for their imperial wars for oil, that's why the rush is on to gain control of as much of the remaining oil and gas reserves as possible.

Without oil, our military machine would grind to a halt.

quote:

The folks who put Bush back in power need to either disavow him and his foreign policy, or they need to send their children into the military, and they need to push the idea of a pay as you go policy for Iraq.

You know those fascists will never do that, Bushes foreign policy is what they want now, a grab for energy and world domination.

They rigged the voting machines to make sure their man got into power, they control the media so we only hear their views on things, most people work and don't have either the time or the energy to seek out other, foreign news outlets.
They want to keep the people in the dark and feed them BS so 'business as usual' can continue on for as long as possibe before the decline in energy kills the economy and sends us plunging into a severe depression.

We have arrived at the top of Hubbards peak.

It's all downhill from now on.

I believe that should there be a landslide victory for the Democratic or other progressive candidates it would be much harder to steal the election. It would have to be too blatant to remain under the radar.

And there are reports of posters and bloggers sent out from the Republicans being paid to throw cold water on progressive boards.ummmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!

Soooooooooooooo forgive me if I don't take all the doom and gloom to heart. I'll be voting for the candidates of my choice anyway. Like it or lump it, steal it or honor it...........I'll be voting and doing what I can to get the vote out.

If your not willing to put up a fight to get rid of the corporatism in our Government, you might want to get out of the way of the ones that do.

socks,

You make a good point about the absence of a landslide ...

to convert your insight into katespeak: when it's too close to call, and you get into counting chads or digital markers ... the population really has left the choice to the powers that be.

... as a debating point, the truth of the matter is that a "majority" of the american people are not so plainly republican, and I'll tag along with Sawdust and remind him of that dirty little detail, whenever he presents that chin out, arms folded over his virtual chest bald statement of "a" version of reality ...

Socks, I'm with you on fighting the Corporatism in gov't. ...but there is nothing I've seen in the Democrat Party, nor the Republicrat, to indicate they're truly on-board with that notion... so, I'll suggest we focus on the 'other' candidates... as well as IRVoting, and free and fair ballot access, everywhere!

quote:

I believe that should there be a landslide victory for the Democratic or other progressive candidates it would be much harder to steal the election. It would have to be too blatant to remain under the radar.

Ah have you forgotten already the Clinton years?
He was "republicon" lite, he gave us GATT,NAFTA and started that great sucking noise of our jobs being outsourced.
Both the "Dems" and the "Cons" are in the pocket of the corporations.
A "landslide vote" for the Democrats won't change a thing.It will be a usefull as changing deck chairs on the Titanic.

Even if the Dems come out with a progressive candidate, the "cons" will hack the vote so he loses no matter how big the "landslide" for him.

And when that happens, what can WE do about it??
The same thing we did about the last two hacked Selections-NOTHING!

quote:

there is nothing I've seen in the Democrat Party, nor the Republicrat, to indicate they're truly on-board with that notion... so, I'll suggest we focus on the 'other' candidates... as well as IRVoting, and free and fair ballot access, everywhere!

Good luck in getting REAL elections, but with the corporations controling the voting machines you have as much chance of getting a REAL election as a snowball passing through hell.

Sure, I'ed vote Green with the full knowledge that my "vote" is worthless but then why bother with a worthless 'vote'?
Until we can get the corporations out of the voting system, the 'vote' will continue to be a sham.
I would love to see IRV, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

With oil about to peak, whoever get's the "vote" is in for an impossible job, this country will turn into a apocalyptic mess as oil and natural gas decline.

What I see happening now is the rich and powerfull grabbing all they can before the economy collapses into ruin.
They have their 'bunkers', do you have yours?

peak oil is in the mainstream news. matthew simmons was on a cable news show and the AP has a fairly balanced look peak oil. a good summary of what is
[

quote:

Where you stand on "peak oil," as parties to the debate call it, depends on which forces you consider dominant in controlling the oil markets. People who consider economic forces most important believe that prices are high right now mostly because of increased demand from China and other rapidly growing economies. But eventually, high prices should encourage consumers to use less and producers to pump more.

But Deffeyes and many other geologists counter that when it comes to oil, Mother Nature trumps Adam Smith. The way they see it, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Norway and other major producers are already pumping as fast as they can. The only way to increase production capacity is to discover more oil. Yet with a few exceptions, there just isn't much left out there to be discovered.

"The economists all think that if you show up at the cashier's cage with enough currency

I am sympathetic to anyone faced with no other choice when voting but a Republican and a Republican-lite Democrat. I am in that catigory.

If in this area I had the choice of an Independent or a Green, then I would no longer throw my vote away on the Republican-lite Democrat.

I do see a difference in the 2 major partys. I do not belive this nation would have begun a policy of pre-emptive invasions and occupations, had all the votes been counted and all that were registered allowed to vote, or all provisional ballots had been checked and counted. Never mind all the people wrongly taken off the voter roles for false reasons, and no recourse to re-varification of their vote in a timely manner. In other words, had the rightfull Presidential candidate been awarded the election.

Pre-emptive invasions and occupations are not all that would NOT have been invented in these last 5 years should a Democrat been in office. There is a ton of legislation that would not have seen the light of day, never mind been past, as it has under the Republicans. So don't believe the false accuzation that there is no difference between the 2 partys.

What I am faced with is either making, from scratch, another party and supporting a candidate alone, or working to retake the Democratic Party from the corporatists that run it now.

Living in a rural area(small population base) and not being rich or influential, I think I can rule out starting another party from scratch.

I have fought long and hard for progressive values and mostly in the Democratic Party. I remember the dissapointment with Bill Clinton, after the 1st flush of anticipation when he won his 1st election.

Under President Clinton the Democratic Party took a right turn and fell in a hole. No one is more devistated or dissappointed than I.

Any Democratic President that supports Globalism, WTO, the AFTAs, and don't ask don't tell, and deregulates the communications industry, quite frankly has sold out the Democratic values that are in the Democratic Charter.

So I am left with the want for changing the Democratis Party. And luckily I am not alone in this desire.

In the 1st place I and many others worked to get Howard Dean made Chairman of the DLC. And that was won against the powerful R-lite and pro-corporate forces in the DLC this last March.

I know Dean is not the liberal flame thrower that I would perfer. But he is also not an R-lite phoney Dem. And he is tirelessly working at organizing the local chapters in "RED" states. He is NOT sitting in the plush DNC offices handing out press notices and courting corporations for hand-outs.

When Dean is offered a voice on the National stage he has been open and articulate and anti-Republican. He has called it like it is. So I support his efforts.

There is a vibrant progressive movement in the party as well.

The efforts of the Black Caucus are pretty well known. In addition, some new comers are the scene Congressional Progressive Caucus.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/edcut?bid=78pid=2621

At a time in which too many Dems have lost their way (read: spine), CPC members--from co-chairs Barbara Lee (CA) and Lynn Woolsey (CA) to outspoken figures like founder (and Senate hopeful) Bernie Sanders (VT), Dennis Kucinich (OH), Jan Schakowsky (IL), John Conyers (MI), Maurice Hinchey (NY) and Barney Frank (MA)--continue to fight for working Americans, stand against the war, and discuss honorable ways out of Iraq. This week, Lee and Woolsey took a significant step towards strengthening the CPC, hiring grassroots organizer, former AFL-CIO staffer, and Capitol Hill veteran Bill Goold as its first full-time staffer. "There are a growing number of people who are getting involved with politics because they are drawn to the basic principles of fairness and justice that the Progressive Caucus has long represented in Congress," said Lee. "Adding a staff member of Bill's experience will allow the Progressive Caucus to more effectively continue our commitment to these principles."

There is a wing of the Democratic party that is committed to swinging the Democratic Party back to its roots.

http://pdamerica.org/orgs/index.php

As of now I am not willing to throw in the towell. And I am not a new comer that hasn't felt the sting of dissappointment for decades.

socks,

You seem to be making speeches in that last post. I don't have a huge problem with Howard Dean or with your critique of the Clinton presidency, but, honestly, in your last post I'm not getting a sense of you as a person but rather you as a political operative.

Kate

Kate,

I've read and studied more in the last year than the rest of my life totaled. And I've become fairly opinionated.

I did alot of thinking about what I believe are the basics, as to what is important. The situation demanded that I get off my lazy butt and get busy. What I know of the Bush administration is serious and very troubling. I honestly believe my country is being stolen out from under us. And I'm one that isn't afraid to say I belive the definition of fascism fits, like a glove, the Bush regime.

For years I was in a Union and was a Democrat, but hadn't gotten serious about what that actually ment. Tho, I did spend hours and hours stuffing envelopes at Dem, headquarters during some elections and carried around voter registration forms before more elections than I can count right now.

Once I wrote a motivation for our Union contract negotioations, and now I understand that most unions carry that as part of their contract. But it was just a fluke that that happened. I'm really pretty normal.

I found the charter for the Democratic Party online and read it about 4 months ago. At the same time I started listening to Thom Hartmann on the computer and reading Howard Zinn's book, A People's History Of The United States.

I also joined the Randi Rhodes Message Board about a year ago and have read extensively on it and the articles that interested me. I've read a little bit on the Democratic Underground Message Board also.

So with a bit of effort and time even an old home grown Patriot can get up to speed.

Democracy is, and must be left in the hands of the People. But we have to do our part and get and stay informed.

This is not a time when one can sit back and expect the system to just work all on its own and do nothing for this land we love. We are in peril of losing it forever, if the neo-cons are not called into an accounting for their leadership over the last 4 & 1/2 years.

thanks, socks. That's an interesting path.

I met Howard Zinn about ten years ago, and I didn't really know who he was! I had read his People's History, about ten years before that, but ... I missed that opportunity.

My more recent exposure to politics has been kind of accidental, through internet connections really, starting with a close study of institutional public school, as a parent of a little guy. I've not taken my growing awareness to the streets, not yet, but in my own way ... I've been making progress.

Kate

That 'progressive wing' had better have funding sources equal, if not superior to the current crop of Corporate/Plutocrat special interests, if they're to have the proverbial 'snowball's chance in hell' of changing much of anything 'within' the 'Party'.

I also beg to differ with your belief that you, as a rural American, could 'do no better/be more effective' as a grassroots "3rd Party" 'operative'...

One of the positive aspects of 'third' parties is their ability to draw from among disenfranchised voters of myriad political backgrounds... Red-state 'Repub's' as well as Blue-state 'Dem's'... not to mention the masses of non-voters--.

I have a very hard time imagining that, no matter how progressive a 'wing' the Dem. party has, it will ultimately be part of 'business as usual', something I remain unwilling to accept as our 'only alternative'.

"Fool me once; shame on me... fool me twice... won't get fooled again..."

Like many I am trying to figure out whether to go to the green party even if it has no national hope. At some point the people we elect need to make a living and if we desert them they may get the message that we want something more. I would not vote for Kerry and Edwards is only a little appealing because he does not think large enough. Unless we alter the fundamentals of the economy nothing will change. If we want to do so but are prevented then let us kee on and on and on until we win. But there are too many milk toast democrats to suite me. I will say taht McClosky used to be a firebrand but lately she is AWOL so I will vote against her next time.

Independent Congressman Bernie Sanders of Vermont, the Odds on Favorite to Succeed Independent Jim Jeffords in the Senate in 2006

June 15, 2005

Bernie Sanders, the only Independent (I) member of the House of Representatives, is the favorite bet to become the next Senator from Vermont, replacing the only Independent member of the Senate, Jim Jeffords. In fact, the last poll showed him with an average of a 40 point lead over two potential Republican opponents.

Howard Dean, the former governor of Vermont and current DNC chair, has endorsed Sanders, so the only likely opposition from Democrats (Sanders plans to bypass the Democratic Primary and run as an Independent) is if the Republicans try and back a spoiler candidate (which would be right up Rove's alley.) But even that tactic would be considered to have losing odds at this point, because most Vermonters love Bernie.

What does all this prove? That if you stand up for what you believe in and keep fighting for it, and don't back down, you earn the respect of your constituents. In the case of Sanders, Vermont has only one Congressional Representative, so his Congressional constituents will be the same people as his Senate constituents.

Americans like someone with backbone and a couple of fists ready to do battle -- and someone who isn't wishy washy. Not to mention, Bernie's a pro-democracy, pro-working class kind of guy, without apologies. That's why they love Bernie in the Green Mountain State.

* * *

BuzzFlash: On June 10, there was a meeting of the Judiciary Committee chaired by the Republican chairman from Wisconsin, James Sensenbrenner, at which Congressman Conyers invited witnesses to speak to how the Patriot Act is not going well, and is violating American civil liberties. Congressman Sensenbrenner summarily gaveled the meeting to a close because he didn�t like the way it was going, meaning that people were objecting to the Patriot Act, and this was getting on television.

We at BuzzFlash have very strong feelings about the so-called Patriot Act. We view this as a power play by the Bush Administration to gain powers that would be centralized in the Executive branch and not subject to any checks and balances. As you�re aware, in the Senate they had a secret meeting recently about the Patriot Act in which they discussed giving the FBI subpoena powers without having to go through the courtroom. What is your whole take about where we�re at with the Patriot Act?

Congressman Sanders: I voted against the Patriot Act. I�ve introduced, I think, the first legislation to start amending the Patriot Act, which is to take libraries and bookstores out of Section 215. By the way, that was brought to the floor of the House last summer, and at the end of the regulation time, we had won that vote. Tom DeLay kept the rolls open for another twenty minutes and twisted some Republican arms. And we ended up losing it by a 210-210 vote. That amendment should be before the House again on Tuesday [June 14]. We�re going to try again. I think we have a shot to win it.

The whole idea of the Patriot Act does concern me very, very much. We do have to be vigorous in protecting the American people from terrorism, but I do not believe that you have to undermine Constitutional rights in order to do so. The Bush Administration�s position on civil liberties has been a disaster, not just with the USA Patriot Act, but also moving toward a national ID card, their desire to make sure that the PBS becomes a Republican outlet, the fact that they entertained an extreme right-wing blogger in the White House conference room to allow softball questions to be asked, the fact that it is extremely difficult for members of the opposition to get amendments heard on the floor of the House. There has been a huge abuse of power on the part of the Republican leadership. The Patriot Act is just another step that will chip away at Americans� Constitutional rights.

BuzzFlash: On the Senate side they are mulling over the FBI being given subpoena powers without having to get the approval of a judge.

Congressman Sanders: I totally disagree with it. In the Congress a number of provisions are up for being sunsetted. The Senate has not sunset anything. In fact, they�ve expanded the rights of the government to get information from Americans without judicial review. Obviously, that is moving in exactly the wrong direction.

BuzzFlash: This is a real centralization of power in the Executive branch. The FBI, of course, works for the Executive branch. How much of a threat is that?

Congressman Sanders: You have the most secretive Administration probably in the history of this country, an Administration which claims to be "conservative," but in fact is right-wing extremist. Honest conservatives believe in the decentralization of power. Power back to the states, back to local communities. This Administration, more than any that we can remember, wants power for itself, wants to do away, time after time, with judicial review, has an Attorney General who wrote a recommendation regarding and approving detainee torture, is sending prisoners to other countries to be tortured, has run a very bad process in Guantanamo, to say the least. Obviously, in terms of civil liberties, this is a very dangerous Administration, and we�ve got to fight back as vigorously as we can.

BuzzFlash: I�d like you to comment on Congressman Sensenbrenner's abruptly ending the committee meeting which, in our estimation, the Bush Administration didn�t want the media to cover -- testimony about violations of civil rights under the so-called Patriot Act. In the case of your amendment having to do with not giving the FBI the right to go and look at records of library usage and other data, Tom DeLay and Hastert just arbitrarily broke the rules of Congress and extended the clock, and arm-twisted in order to defeat the bill.

Congressman Sanders: That�s correct. These guys really do not believe in rules. Generally speaking, most of us grew up believing that sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. If you play a football game, there are four quarters to the game. And if you�re behind at the end of the game, you lose. You don�t simply say, hey, I�m losing. Let�s play a fifth quarter until I win.

These guys play to win, and they will break rules, as they did with my amendment. Or more � even more significantly, it took them three additional hours to twist votes to win the vote on the Medicare prescription drug bill, a disastrous bill written by the pharmaceutical industry. These guys are now, for the first time, very overtly injecting their political views into public broadcasting, hiring Republican Ken Tomlinson to run public broadcasting, demanding conservative programming be on the air. So this is an Administration which is exercising its power in an unprecedented way, in my view, to push its ideology. It is breaking rules and does not have a lot of respect for the United States Constitution. It is, in my view, the most reactionary Administration in the modern history of America, if not in American history.

BuzzFlash: We saw you recently at the Media Reform Conference in St. Louis, and you�ve been a very eloquent and articulate spokesperson on the need for media reform. In a film which we�ve offered as a premium on BuzzFlash, and I think close to 5,000 people have bought - "Orwell Rolls in His Grave" - you discuss the issue that, in all your years in Congress, no newspaper reporter or television reporter � no journalist � has come to you and asked about the income disparity gap, and the growing income disparity gap, in the United States. Why isn�t the media interested in that?

Congressman Sanders: Well, I think two points. My office has been working very, very hard on this whole issue of media. (And by the way, I thought that Orwell film was an extraordinarily good film. I was really glad to have been part of it.) The key issue is that we�re seeing fewer and fewer large media conglomerates owning and controlling what the American people see, hear, and read. The extraordinary danger of that is, number one, Bush obviously wants those numbers to decline even further. That�s why he was pushing, with Michael Powell, the so-called deregulation. It would have ended up meaning, if they had won, that in communities around America, you could have one company � one company -- owning the local television stations, radio stations, newspaper, cable company, and essentially controlling the entire flow of information to a local community. That�s what Bush wanted. So far, he has not gotten that.

But all of this is part of a situation in which fewer and fewer people define what news is and what the American people will see, hear, and read. So somebody decides, for example, that the Michael Jackson trial is terribly important, or the kidnapping of an attractive woman deserves to be on the front pages every single day. Meanwhile, huge issues that affect tens of millions of Americans get very, very little coverage. For example, the most significant domestic issue facing the American people is the collapse of the middle class � the fact that in the last thirty years, 90% - the bottom 90% of American workers � have seen a decline in their real wages, despite an explosion of worker productivity and technology. The gap between the rich and the poor is now wider today than it has been since the 1920s. The poverty rate has increased by four million in the last four years.

How often does the media talk about these issues which impact tens of millions of people? It�s just not part of what they think is news. Anything that smacks of some personal attack, or that�s sensational becomes prominent news. But the decline of the standard of living of tens of millions of Americans, the disintegration of our health care system, the fact that we�re the only nation on earth without a national health care program � these are non-news issues. As I said before, in all of the years that I have been involved in government � as a mayor for eight years, and in Congress for fifteen years � nobody�s ever come up to me to ask what I was trying to do to end the growing disparity between the rich and the poor, because reporters are not told that that is an important issue. There are a million issues that they will ask me about, but that happens to be not one of them.

BuzzFlash: Can we speculate that part of the reason that question is not asked is that these reporters work for broadcast vehicles or print publications that are part of larger media corporations that benefit from the disparity?

Congressman Sanders: It�s not that the average reporter in Vermont or in New Hampshire is told that you can�t ask that question. People who work for other people learn to know what is expected, or what their bosses want to hear, what they think is news. If there�s a fire, it is big, big news. If there is a crime, it is big, big news. If there�s a demonstration of hundreds of workers protesting something, it is determined not to be big news.

Ultimately it does go back, of course, to the fact that the people who own media are by and large wealthy corporate interests, talking about our disastrous trade policy, the tax breaks that we give to the wealthiest people. Talk about economic class issues. I mean, that�s what it�s about � class issues. Do we think the ruling class wants to talk about class issues and point out that there has been class warfare going on in this country for the last several decades, for which the rich are becoming much richer while the middle class shrinks and poverty increases? That is not an issue that the wealthy and the people who own the media particularly want to talk about.

BuzzFlash: You�ve been going around your state, which has gone through some very interesting demographic changes over the past thirty years, with a lot of wealthy Northeasterners moving up there, either for retirement or summer homes. And Burlington, where you were the mayor, has grown enormously. You travel around the state. What are people saying to you in town hall meetings are their biggest concerns?

Congressman Sanders: Well, let me just deal with the demographics of Vermont. It is absolutely true that people come to Vermont from New York or Western Massachusetts. But the simple reality � and sometimes the media does not understand this � most Vermonters are not spending their winters in chalets skiing. This is a state where a vast majority of the people are working very, very hard just in order to pay the bills. A majority of workers are earning wages that don�t even allow them to either rent or purchase affordable housing. Especially in the rural areas, a lot of people are struggling very hard to keep their heads above water.

You know, in the winter time, it gets pretty cold. Transportation costs are high. Heating costs are high. Wages are pretty low. So this is a state which has a lot of economic problems. We held a number of town meetings around the state on the issue of poverty. What we heard from the people themselves � people who are in the midst of being poor � is that people are working really, really hard but they�re having a very hard time finding affordable housing. When they�re finding housing, they�re spending a very significant part of their income for housing.

Health care for adults is a real serious problem in the state of Vermont. People don�t have it. If they do have it, they�re paying far more than they can afford. We�re finding that single moms, and even mothers that are married and in the household that is working, almost all of them are finding it very, very hard to find affordable child care. We also found from some people who work that hunger exists in the state of Vermont � our food banks are now providing more food to people than used to be the case. And that is mostly working people. We�re not talking about people unemployed. We�re talking about working people who at the end of the week don�t have enough money to buy the food that their families need. I was quite surprised � but we have had very, very large turnouts in these meetings. And bottom line is that working people are facing a whole lot of economic problems. These problems are not being discussed in Congress, and they�re certainly not being discussed in the media.

BuzzFlash: Are you hearing that the money that�s being spent on Iraq might be better spent in Vermont?

Congressman Sanders: Yes. At these meetings, people are very concerned that the President of the United States has not yet given us an exit strategy. I think people now want this President to tell us when our troops are going to begin coming home. I don�t believe troops can come home tomorrow. But I think they should be coming home sooner. I think it�s incumbent on the President to start telling us what his exit strategy is.

BuzzFlash: Are the people of Vermont starting to understand that they may have been deceived about the war?

Congressman Sanders: I don�t think the people of Vermont were deceived about the war. The people of Vermont were against the war. We have two Senators and myself, and all three of us voted against giving the President authorization to go to war. I can�t speak for the other two, but I certainly think that was the right vote. I�ve worked very hard trying to gain Congressional support in opposition to going to war. I suspect that there are places around America where people believed the President�s justifications for going to war who now understand that the President was not telling them the truth. In Vermont, people opposed the war then and oppose the war now. While we support the troops and we want to make sure that they are well-equipped and well-protected, I think the people understand that this war was not a good idea and could have been prevented, and we want our troops to come home as soon as possible.

BuzzFlash: You represent a state that does have a large rural farming population. The conventional wisdom in the media is that farmers vote for Bush. How has Bush agricultural policy affected Vermont?

Congressman Sanders: Bush�s agricultural policies are geared toward agribusiness, toward large agribusiness conglomerates who are very, very wealthy and very large. In Vermont, our farmers are overwhelmingly small farmers. Our delegation in Congress had some success in passing legislation which was not supported by the Bush Administration � to provide help when prices go low. So I think most farmers in this country � in the state of Vermont, at least � most small farmers understand that the President is not on their side.

BuzzFlash: You are running, as we mentioned earlier, to succeed Senator Jeffords in the Senate. He moved from Republican to Independent. You�ve been an Independent Congressman since you were elected and are running as an Independent for the Senate. Why is it important for you to be an Independent rather than a Democrat?

Congressman Sanders: I�m very proud of being an independent and proud of being the first Independent elected to the House in forty years. And the reason is, I am an Independent. Obviously, I work very closely with progressive Democrats and we formed the House progressive caucus, which now has 55 members, when I was first elected. Those are my closest allies. The truth is that there are a number of Democrats who, in many ways, operate as Republicans.

On the other hand, sometimes on various issues we work very closely with some conservative Republicans. Yesterday I was on the floor of the House introducing a resolution on withdrawing from the WTO, for example. We have very strong, conservative Republicans on this. My strong belief is that the Republican Party is certainly -- a lot, lot more than the Democratic Party, but the Democratic Party also -- is influenced by big money. And I prefer to remain an Independent, doing my best to speak up for middle class and working families against the multi-national corporations, the wealthy who exert enormous influence over the political process. That�s how I�ve been elected over the last, 24 years, and that�s how I�m going to run for the Senate � as an Independent, prepared to take on the special interests in Washington and fight for the rights of ordinary people.

BuzzFlash: Your neighboring state, New Hampshire, has the motto, �Live free or die.� The Republican Party traditionally, looking back forty, fifty years ago, was known for trying to preserve states� rights and opposing the concentration of power in Washington. It seems the Bush Administration has kind of turned that on its head.

Congressman Sanders: You�re absolutely correct, and this is not widely talked about. I�m on the Financial Services committee, and we see this every day there. I am not a conservative, but conservatism is a respectable philosophy which has given power back to local communities. Conservatives don�t like a big federal government. That happens not to be my point of view, but it is an intellectually honest point of view. That is not � underlined � not - what Bush is.

Bush is a right-wing extremist. Wherever they can, they will seize power for the Administration. We see it in terms of issues dealing with financial matters, and a dozen others � we talked about civil liberties before � where they are prepared to preempt states� rights. This medical marijuana thing just the other day is a perfect case in point. Some people think that medical marijuana is a good idea. Some people think it�s not a good idea. If a state votes for that, why is Bush pushing the federal government to overturn that? But he does this in every instance. So the point must be made that Bush is many things, but a conservative he is not. He is rather a right-wing extremist who is pushing a hard right ideology, and in instance after instance, is trying to consolidate power in Washington.

BuzzFlash: Thank you very much for your time, Congressman, and best wishes in your Senate run.

Congressman Sanders: Thank you very much.

sander's amendment to keep the fbi out of the library, including internet signup sheets, and bookstores PASSED 239-187

My suggestion is that it's important to vote. How important? Not very, but it's better than abstaining from the process. Politics basically 'buys time' to work on 'changing understanding'.

And just how much time does it actually take to caste a vote anyway?

By not voting, it simply encourages other progressives to become apathetic.

If we become apathetic, and encourage others to become apathetic, what does that accomplish?

My suggestion about Peak Oil is that we're a good 20 years away from anything catastrophic. There's lot's of oil left, it's just going to be more costly to extract it. So should we just put up with whatever crap the wealthy elite wish to shovel upon us for the next 20 years, or do what we can to slow the crap down and work on changing understanding? (To whatever degree we feel we can)

I also feel most people won't change until it get's horribly nasty, but is that a good reason to just sit back and let it get worse because alot of people 'don't understand'?

It seems to boil down to this: Do we care at all about one another? If you have children, family or friends you care about, and you feel we're going to crash, do you just say "**** It" and let everything deteriorate?

I suggest that 'No One' knows for sure that we are going to crash. Humans obviously can be incredibly stupid, but they are also capable of learning and changing. Lot's of people are changing. Lot's more are open to change, and alot may need to experience some serious pain first.

So my other suggestion is this: Be brutally honest about what we truly know and don't know.

We don't know we're gonna crash for certain, so why act like we do?

I suggest we do whatever we can, even if it's only something as small as voting. Otherwise, how does that make one different from others who are asleep at the wheel?

That's how it seems to me.

Regards - Howard

howard. perhaps we can do more than vote on election day. on this board we have democrats, grrens, libertarians...and a republican. what are we doing locally? have you been in touch with a local or state political organization?

or are we "above" that? content to yammer and whine? some values of one group or another may turn you off, but some of their goals coincide with yours. is there any group with which you can visualize yourself as a member. or as groucho said, any grioup that would have me as a memeber, i wouldn't want to be a part of. (shaky paraphrase--maybe it was mark twain. my memory dims).

i am reading collapse, by jared diamond. reading his desciption and explanation of how and why societies fail is informative and enlightening. it must be so for others, because it is on the best seller list. when i first got it from the library after waiting for three months, i was dismayed to see how long it was. but his writing is clear and organized, so reading is not a chore.

he has some success stories, too...just to shiow that it can be done. highly recommended.

ebba - Sure, there's always room to do more. I was basically addressing the issue of 'voting'.

Have I been in touch with any local or state political organizations? Of course. I've spent years doing that, and still do (less frequently. But I now concentrate more on dialogue, because it seems clear to me that we humans are way too 'fragmented and divided', which severely limits the free-flow of information and understanding.


Re: Is there any group with which you can visualize yourself as a member?

**Yes.....the Human Race. I'm a member of the Green Party, but I don't 'identify' myself as a "Green". I see labels as way too limited for describing effectively a complex human being. So I see myself basically as part of one larger human race, and an aspect of one undivided whole.


Re: yammer and whine

**Not sure what you are referring to? I'm simply trying to put forth my suggestion that politics affects us all in many concrete ways, which means it's not wise to ignore it by not voting, regardless of how messed up our system may be. That's my 'suggestion'. Everyone is free to do whatever they wish with it, including ignoring it.

I'm just offering my suggestion about what may 'work or not work'. Whether it "turns me off" or not, as you put it, is irrelevant to me personally.

Regards - Howard

hi howard! thanks for your response. yammer and whine is the sort of language which i wish could disappear from political discourse, not that i have ever heard that particular phrase. it is all mine.

i feel that we are similar in age and outlook. i wish we could go back and as a nation do things differently. who knew that a weasel, a failed silver spooner, could be plucked from a texas "ranch house" and become the duly elected dupe of the people? oops, there i go again. i seem to be unable to indulge inrational discourse on this topic. therefore, i understand ranting from dean and others. i think a trong anti-bush platform is necessary. but also, there must be positive proposals.

Sheila,

Boy are you having hard times. Good gosh what a victim complex you have!

Have you not paid attention during the last two national elections? WHO has been found to vote twice, vote while dead, register fictional characters? I'll give you a hint - it WASN'T the Republicans.

Who shot a a party HQ, who slashed tires on vans slated to transport voters, who broke the arm of an election volunteer? I'll give you another hint - it WASN'T the Republicans.

You are such a defeatist. If you think life here is so hopeless, why don't you try Canada or France? Your type of people make me puke.

From "Baseball mom"-

quote:

Have you not paid attention during the last two national elections? WHO has been found to vote twice, vote while dead, register fictional characters? I'll give you a hint - it WASN'T the Republicans.

It WAS Republican HACKED voting machines that gave dubya the 'vote'.
Individual Republican VOTERS voted like everyone else, just once.

From "HowardW"-

quote:

My suggestion about Peak Oil is that we're a good 20 years away from anything catastrophic. There's lot's of oil left, it's just going to be more costly to extract it. So should we just put up with whatever crap the wealthy elite wish to shovel upon us for the next 20 years, or do what we can to slow the crap down and work on changing understanding? (To whatever degree we feel we can)

The evidence indicates we don't have 20 years before TSHTF, but less than 5 years.
Light sweet crude is already in decline as is natural gas in NA.
Oil and natural gas are the life blood of our society, it feeds us, transports us and our goods, it's a major feedstock for millions of products, it heats or cools our buildings, cooks our food, preserves our food and has made it possible for our numbers to vastly exceed the earths natural carrying capacity.

As oil and natural gas declines, it will force a decline in our excessive numbers and all the prayer in the world won't change a thing.

Eventually, billions of us will die of starvation, cold, heat, sickness and wars.

The elete that control this country have known this for years, that's why they are running this country into the ground, that's why they are grabbing all the wealth and power they can before this house of cards collapses.

That's why they hacked our 'votes' to keep themselves in power so they can advance their 'new world order' agenda.

From "HowardW"-

quote:

I suggest that 'No One' knows for sure that we are going to crash. Humans obviously can be incredibly stupid, but they are also capable of learning and changing. Lot's of people are changing. Lot's more are open to change, and alot may need to experience some serious pain first.

Our collapse is now enevitable, our temporary carrying capacity is drawing to a end.
Many people act incredibly 'stupid' because they have been 'educated' to be 'stupid'.

They are encouraged to believe in impossible things, like endless growth, the gods, devils, the 'power' of prayer and other nonsence.
We will indeed experience serious pain and by then, it will be way too late to change the results of decades of enforced 'stupidity' by our so called 'leaders'.
We cannot violate the limits of physics, there is no substitute for oil and natural gas, there will be no 'hydrogen future'.

From "Baseball mom" DEEP in the heart of Texas-

quote:

Your type of people make me puke.

Ignorant, fundamentalist believers make me 'puke'.
Look around, we are in deep doo doo and there is dam little we can do about it because of people like you who believe things are just fine.

Wake up, things are not fine and running off to France or Canada won't help because the collapse will affect ALL countries, not just the USA.

We are now living on a planet that can sustain only about one billion people without fossil fuels thanks to our degradation of our environment.
There are over six billion of us humans and we are still growing in numbers!
You figure it out how we can merely FEED six billion without oil and natural gas.
The data says we cannot.