"We must be the change we want." - Gandhi Energy usage is an issue that we can largely deal with at home, Tune ups, keeping tires inflated, efficient refrigerators, solar panels don't need Congressional authorisation for you to have in your life. In November, Diebold will tell you up is down anyway.

The residents of Willets discovered that their average commute was 28 miles and hve come up with the idea of relocalisation. Creating cities with shorter commutes, stopping importation of apples from New Zealand when there is an orchard nearby are some of the ideas on the site. They also have conferences set up in many areas of the country to brainstorm.

I agree we should do all we can, and get together to find better ways of doing things, but we need to get congreeman to set standards too.

Ok, my title is a bit of an overstatement, but we've been pounding our heads against the wall since 9/11 trying to get national politicians to see that a national energy policy should be part of our responce to terrorism. It's been over 4 years, with very limited results. What's surprised me in the last 2 weeks is seeing how interested my local politicians are in a sane energy policy. I've been to county and city meetings where they've talked about energy from biomass, garbage, wind and waves. Diebold hasn't taken over locally, it's sure easier to talk to real elected officials.

The nerdy geeky term is "embodied energy".
Its good to hear about the alternative energy discussion at the local level.
The more education the better off we will be in choosing the right alternative fuel to use.

Alternative energy for the Bushs is nuclear power plants,low yield per acre corn ethonol,low yield per acre soybean biodiesel,"clean coal" tech,coal based diesel that has double the co2 output than regular diesel and (fairytale)anything hydrogen powered,which is at least 20 years out.

Powering down should also be in the news to go with more energy alternatives.
You could power down and not sacrifice that much
by using newer technology.
I like the new Led light bulbs and now they have Led street lighting.

Something as simple as the incandesant light bulb wastes the most energy and could be gone.It should at least be highly taxed.

There should be a listing of SUV like appliances.
SUV = incandesant light bulbs,old refrig and freezers,old AC units,glass tube TVs and moniters,non-insulated water heaters ect.

Led Light are anywhere near cost effective? I'm surprised. Give us a link so we can talk to local policians. I've also heard that the nearby city of Willets as now put solar on their buildings. Wow, the field is moving fast. pollingreport.com says 85% of America wants more spent on renuables and research. This is an opportunity big enough to drive a truck through, and as more cities do this the pressure on other cities and the feds becomes great, just as the price goes down!

ApolloAlliance

They are working at all levels. Just thought I would post it again as another source.

eley

Led lights are cost effective.You have a longer bulb life/less maintenance/and it uses less electricity/save $ on KWHs/.Also you need to consider the source and cost of the electricity.
here are some links.
One of a few large led companies is
http://www.ledtronics.com/

solar with battery street lighting

http://store.yahoo.com/solardyne/solstreetlig.html
http://www.gosolar.u-net.com/Solar_power_for_industrial...ls_solar_powered.htm

The technology is improving and the product selection is getting better.There is a high initial cost,like the compact fluorescent bulbs were,but the one I have has a 50,000 hr. lifespan.
They do need to work on providing specific led light fixtures.It takes more bulbs/led space/to get the same lighting brightness.
I use a floor mount tree stand fixture that holds three bulbs.Each led bulb only uses 3 watts.Most of the time I just have two bulbs on.

I had to look on a lot of led web sites to find a decent price led bulb.
The ones I bought are the E27-W50 and the E27F.The cool white led light is brighter than the warm white leds light.$28.00 each.
Some other web sites had bigger size bulbs but the prices were high 70.00 on up.

http://www.superbrightleds.com/edison.html

These also look good for outdoor/indoor lighting
at a fair price.94.00 each.
http://www.enluxled.com/

This is great.I just found this .Leds for plant growing.They look awesome for power reduction since the price spike of electricity has hurt the industry
.Now a greenhouse could also use an affordable solar electric system.I might have to buy these too.

http://www.ledtronics.com/ds/plantled/default.asp

This message has been edited. Last edited by: murray,

Thanks alot Murray, I'll be passing the info on the Eureka city council at 7:30 (if anybody wants to back me up here please do) along with an article on the retrofitting cars with solar panels. The author was not a profesional mechanic, and a friend, who also isn't one said he could do it too and that it can be made cost effective, even though the lifetime of a car is shorter than a house because solar replaces the alternator, which is very inefficient. I'm hoping the city can set up a training program for mechanics here.


It seems like this kind of lobbbying will be effective in many locations, so I hope to hear your stories about lobbying yopur cities and counties.

I had a whole lot of fun yesterday. In the morning, I ran into some Bush supporters. They disagree on with him on many things, but their anger keeps them in the conservative camp, especially their anger at tree sitters. Before the meeting(its at 6:30 btw), I ran into a tree sitter, explained that this was a battle we could win, that tree sitting helped keep people on Bush's side, and asked him to back me up. He came to City Hall, but, quite uncharacteristically of him, said nothing, and soon left.

I've noticed in this town the kids treesit, and the geezers talk renuables. We remember the bombing of the ROTC buildings. Although the police were contacted, so people wouldn't be hurt, I was honest enough to be unsure whether that would work. It was the worst mistake my generation made in the antiwar movement. Today it's the only ammunition that Bill O'Reilly and Chris Matthews have. Once people become fearful, they don't think. Hitler had his nation convinced that the Polish were a threat, so he could invade. The Poles tried to defend with horses, while the Nazis came in with tanks.

Does anybody know where I can find a mechanically driven (not electrical) sewage pump? My city is planning on using methane waste from the dump to produce hydrogen. A former city counselman from another city said that one of the major energy expenditures is the sewage pumps. My idea is to burn the methane ( to produce steam?) so that the pumps can operate without losses invovled in the conversion to electricity.

I found a great conservation idea for local governments, I'm talking to my county board next meeting about this....

When a power plant or other industry creates a product, often much energy is disappated as heat. Not only would that heat help on a cooooold day like today, but that heat can be used as power, especially if it's particularly hot. The Maximum efficency of an engine is determined by the ratio of the heat sink to the cold sink. The heat sink is basically the hot spot, the cold sink is the temperature of outside air. On a normal day if the hot spot is 500F, the maximum efficency is 50% at 1100F the maximum efficency is 70%. The Stirling engine is designed to get this energy from air, it could be modified to get it from other sources, yet from what I've read on the net, it's not being used nearly as much as it could be. Once the heat is too degraded to use a Sterling engine cost effectively, it could be piped into people's homes.

quote:

I've noticed in this town the kids treesit, and the geezers talk renuables.

Somebody needs to tell the geezers that trees are a renewable resource.They are renewable but not in a humans lifetime.
I guess the geezers are still mad about logging jobs but they should blame Weyerhaeuser for bad logging practices..

This is a rule of thumb when using a off-grid home power system.There are lot of off-grid homes in N.California.
It is useful for doing any kind of renewable project.

quote:

For every $ 1.00 spent on energy efficiency,
$ 3.00 to $ 5.00 dollars are saved on solar panels and system components.

That should be true for most grid-tied renewable energy projects too.So burn the candle on one end more than the other.


Like using Led lights to save power here is another machince thats thirsty for electricity.

It is the soda pop machine..On a 60 degree day it can use 10 Kwhs a day..So at 0.15 cents a Kwh thats $547.50 a year for just one machine.It will use more Kwhs when the weather is hotter.

My average Kwhs per day in my 2 bedroom home is
30 Kwhs to 36 Kwhs.. So just three soda pop machines would equal my home electrical usage..

No E No P ..Here is a great renewable energy magazine to read.You can get all the issues for $100.00...They have so much information your head will pop..

http://www.homepower.com/

You can also download issues for free.

quote:

Originally posted by murray:

quote:

I've noticed in this town the kids treesit, and the geezers talk renuables.

Somebody needs to tell the geezers that trees are a renewable resource.They are renewable but not in a humans lifetime.
I guess the geezers are still mad about logging jobs but they should blame Weyerhaeuser for bad logging practices..

By geezers, I meant old farts like me, who have seen too much of the conservative scapegoat machine, and don't want to contribute to their talking points unless I absolutely have to.

My library gets homepower, it's a great magazine. I've used some of the info from the magazines at the library to pitch ideas to our local government officials.

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I thought today would be about getting my van running again, instead I got a chance to talk about renuables. It wouldn't start, it's so old that old, that it could be anything, but I had left my lights on. I found a young man, and instead of talking about the weather, I decided to see if he'd like to talk about renuables. Especially since he was doing me a favor, I decided to back off at the first sign of discomfort. I tried starting my van, and the response was so weak, it was going to take a while. So I found out a little bit about him. He'd been in the military in Hawaii, and was headed up the coast to Washington State to study public works. I told him everything I knew, and told him that going to local government meetings could land him a job when he got out. When my battery was recharged, he thanked me!

What a long, strange trip it's been.....