Americans are worried that hard times lie ahead as the credit crunch hits their economy. A recent article by the BBC's Adam Brookes featured people already suffering from the economic downturn in Detroit, Michigan.
It sparked a flood of e-mails to the BBC news website. We asked those who responded about their fears and how it would influence the way they celebrated Thanksgiving and Christmas. Here are some of their responses:
I don't know if you are aware of what goes on here between Thanksgiving and Christmas, but it is pretty much one long gluttony festival. By January, people are looking at themselves and longing for liposuction or artery scrubbing. It is as if to say, spending more money will atone for your sins.
And it's not just food and drink. Americans are obsessed with buying cheap junk and generating mountains of garbage. Just the wrapping and packaging alone is a crime against the planet. I feel guilty just watching it happen, and I have never received a christmas present in my life. Or a Hanukkah present for that matter.
So the upshot is, it will be good for Americans to suffer the horrible shortage of consumables. Don't worry about it.
-- The only time we see the middle of the road is as we run from side to side. R.O.Clark
Posts: 3959 | Location: Santa Fe | Registered: 11 June 2003
In their short history, Americans have NEVER tightened their belt for real. They simply have no concept of what it is to suffer. They haven't had a war on their own soil, and they are pretty much used to getting whatever it is they want. In many ways it's a very immature culture.
Posts: 247 | Location: Limbo | Registered: 17 November 2007
For a reminder of what many of us have to be thankful for. The different stories were an interesting read.
The last one...
VIVEK SHARMA, is an excellent example of how people from India live their lives here, They expect litle from their employers, yet work long hard hour for little pay and manage to raise a family in the process. The rewards for this man will come later, when his son graduates from medical school.
On the other hand...
DANIEL AND CYNTHIA WOLFE
this family has lived its life like the Bush administration, borrowing and spending until the cows come home. I am finding it hard to feel sorry for them because the wife keeps talking about "my husband' this and "my husband" that, but I don't see anything about her going out to find work. It seems she willing to be homeless before considering that route.
Unfortunately, most Americans pattern their lives after the Wolfes, rather that the Sharmas, which will make a real recession very painful, but maybe a good recession is what this country needs to wake up and smell the coffee. The babyboomers have been enriching their lives at the expense of future generations for years now and the time for accountability is long overdue.
Also, if America emerges from its "borrow and spend" binge, as if from an opium den, it may realize that the tax cuts to the rich, corporate welfare and CEO compensation that rivals the GDP of small countries isn't such a good idea after all.
"These things which man purports to admire-the noble, the brilliant, the splendid-these are the very things he cannot tolerate when he finds them."-----Mark Clifton
Posts: 5565 | Location: hoffman estates il | Registered: 01 April 2003
Funny: Getting back to VIVEK SHARMA: A recent study was conducted at the two most elite high schools in New York, Stuyvesant and Bronx High School of Science. Almost 90% of the student are foreign born. I find this an interesting contrast to the "immigrant basing" going on in the media today. We have created a generation of "Lazy kids" who don't believe they have to apply themselves. I say that as a father of a teenage son who is pulling a B+ average this semester but I know he is capable of doing an A. In subjects like Chemistry and Trigonometry he goes through the motions but he can do better. They spend more time "text messaging and IM'ing then they do doing math problems. I admit I am a bit of a fanatic. But what the hell are these kids think they are going to do. We get mad at the Mexicans for coming here and I recognize border security and having a sensible immigration policy. But try to separate that from another issue. You think these kids are going to pick apples, sweep the floors, chop the onions, pour the beer and whiskey. I did all of those jobs and I am not ashamed to say I did.
"a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. But the tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason."
Posts: 1944 | Location: Beautiful New Paltz, NY | Registered: 04 July 2006
BBC NEWS US shops expect weak Black Friday As US retailers prepare for Black Friday, the day after Thanksgiving that marks the start of the Christmas season, festive cheer seems limited.
With US economic growth hit by the downturn in the housing market, and the knock-on credit crisis, recent data has shown a sharp fall in retail spending.
And as US consumers seem less willing or able to spend, most retail analysts expect this downturn to continue.
"The holiday season will be terrible," said economist Ian Shepherdson.
'Further deterioration'
Higher petrol prices and volatile financial markets have also hit US consumers.
The most recent official data from the Commerce Department showed that retail sales rose by just 0.2% in October, compared with September's 0.7% gain.
At the same time, some of America's largest retail firms, such as Macy's, Limited Brands, JC Penny and Nordstrom, have all seen same-store sales fall last month.
"We expect a further deterioration as consumers cut back in the face of soaring petrol prices, falling stock prices and the continued disaster in housing," said Mr Shepherdson, who works for research group High Frequency Economics.
The downturn in the housing market has centred on record levels of mortgage defaults in the so-called sub-prime sector, which specialises in higher risk loans to people with poor credit histories, or those on lower incomes.
Most of the main US banks have subsequently lost millions of dollars after having to write-off their exposure to this bad debt.
The crisis has made the banks much less willing to lend among themselves or to other borrowers, both reducing and pushing up the price of available credit.
America's central bank, the Federal Reserve, has confirmed that US economic growth is now slowing.
Earlier this week it cut its forecast for 2008's economic growth to a range of 1.8% to 2.5%.
"a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. But the tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason."
Posts: 1944 | Location: Beautiful New Paltz, NY | Registered: 04 July 2006
In their short history, Americans have NEVER tightened their belt for real. They simply have no concept of what it is to suffer. They haven't had a war on their own soil, and they are pretty much used to getting whatever it is they want. In many ways it's a very immature culture.
actually, that is incorrect.
1)the generation of WW2 americans really did tighten their belts and made sacrifices that would seem impossible for todays americans
2)americans DO know what it is to suffer. many senior americans have to make a choice between life saving medicine or food. natural disaster kill thousands of americans a year. the poverty rate has been slowly increasing back. america might be the most advanced and powerful nation, but its 'ordinary' citizens suffer on a daily basis.
3)wars HAVE been fought on america soil. the war of 1812 involved an invasion of washington dc (with the white house getting burned down by the british), WW2 involved attacks on hawaii and other american territorys, and im curious as to what you call the conflict which occurred IN america from 1861-1865.
4)i would agree with you that the newest generations of americans have been raised in a self gratifing way. but even that is not entirely true. the newest generations are also the ones on the forefront to problems like civil rights, global pollution, and even religion. sometimes, we dont give younger people the credit they deserve.
------------------------------------------ debating conservatives is easy. so easy, even a caveman can do it!
"if this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck lot easier, just so long as im the dictator" -GWB Dec 18,2002
Posts: 1614 | Location: ft myers florida area | Registered: 23 September 2006
Originally posted by Loki: In their short history, Americans have NEVER tightened their belt for real. They simply have no concept of what it is to suffer. They haven't had a war on their own soil, and they are pretty much used to getting whatever it is they want. In many ways it's a very immature culture.
What country do you live in Loki? It is apparent that you know very little about the U.S.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."
Theodore Roosevelt, 1913
Posts: 2404 | Location: Redmond WA | Registered: 04 September 2006
I tell you what, I have heard more about Black Friday this week than any other topic. YOU MUST SPEND! If you do not spend then you will feel guilty. The entire nation is dependent on YOU SPENDING! And the news media is there to let us know that this is Black Friday, when merchants FINALLY start making money.
-- The only time we see the middle of the road is as we run from side to side. R.O.Clark
Posts: 3959 | Location: Santa Fe | Registered: 11 June 2003
Other than buying a sump pump at Home Depot, I'll be avoiding the stores. I don't know anyone that willingly goes out into the nuthouses today. Crowds are annoying.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."
Theodore Roosevelt, 1913
Posts: 2404 | Location: Redmond WA | Registered: 04 September 2006
It is apparent that you know very little about the U.S.
Not without your clarification of that statement it isn't. And here's a thought: let's for argument's sake, assume that you don't know what country I'm in or from, shall we?
(let me guess: the Civil War and the Great Depression, right?)
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Loki,
Posts: 247 | Location: Limbo | Registered: 17 November 2007
Reality check, covers some of the thanks returning vets are getting, only this time the 'up yours' is from the same ones that sent them.
quote:
Fox received a bill from the Department of Defense, saying he owes the military nearly $3,000 from his original enlistment bonus because he couldn’t fulfill three months of his commitment.
“I tried to do my best and serve my country and unfortunately I was hurt in the process and now they’re telling me that they want their money back,” Fox told CBS station KDKA-TV.
This is apparently not an isolated bureaucratic foul-up. The military is allegedly demanding that thousands of wounded service personnel give back signing bonuses because they are unable to serve out their commitments.
Blaise Pascal Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. Pensees
Posts: 2917 | Location: Sverige | Registered: 21 June 2005
I don't know if you are aware of what goes on here between Thanksgiving and Christmas, but it is pretty much one long gluttony festival. By January, people are looking at themselves and longing for liposuction or artery scrubbing. It is as if to say, spending more money will atone for your sins.
Gnarly, I couldn't agree with you more.
I view this time of year with dread. I am self-employed, and my business is retail-related. Normally civil people turn into assholes trying to the get the next tickle me Elmo or playstation or Hannah Montana or whatever. This time of year is when I feed my family, so I put up with it.
The materialism of holiday gift giving is crap to me, but it's important to them, and it's my job to help them have the happiest holiday possible despite my personal reservations.
I know you are not a Christian, but this hyper materialism has focused my holiday celebration on the spiritual aspects of the season. So even though parts of the season are distasteful, the profane helps me appreciate the sacred.
The best you can do is not to give in to the expectations of others. Remind others why you celebrate (or don't celebrate this time of year).
Posts: 1807 | Location: West Michigan | Registered: 23 June 2005
I started hearing Christmas radio ads 2 weeks before Thanksgiving, for overstock.com. if people decide to stop spending this season, it is more likely to be that they're fed up with high-pressure sales pitches rather than a bad economy.
I don't care how good of a gunslinger you are, you can still shoot yourself in the foot.
-- The only time we see the middle of the road is as we run from side to side. R.O.Clark
Posts: 3959 | Location: Santa Fe | Registered: 11 June 2003
News Flash! Limbo, Central Asia, Short-memoried Americans rally in support of the tightening of Washington's BELT, way!!! Spokesperson for the group advocates civil war, to be conducted high in the Andes Mountains, to be led by Ceasar. Unnamed sources are too involved in the Great Depression to comment...
Posts: 582 | Location: New York City | Registered: 13 February 2007
BBC NEWS US shops expect weak Black Friday As US retailers prepare for Black Friday, the day after Thanksgiving that marks the start of the Christmas season, festive cheer seems limited.
With US economic growth hit by the downturn in the housing market, and the knock-on credit crisis, recent data has shown a sharp fall in retail spending.
And as US consumers seem less willing or able to spend, most retail analysts expect this downturn to continue.
"The holiday season will be terrible," said economist Ian Shepherdson.
Well, the first numbers are out, and it appears the BBC is wrong, what a shock!
quote:
NEW YORK (AP) - The nation's retailers had a robust start to the holiday shopping season, according to results announced Saturday by a national research group that tracks sales at retail outlets across the country.
According to ShopperTrak RCT Corp., which tracks sales at more than 50,000 retail outlets, total sales rose 8.3 percent to about $10.3 billion on Friday, the day after Thanksgiving, compared with $9.5 billion on the same day a year ago. ShopperTrak had expected an increase of no more than 4 percent to 5 percent.
"This is a really strong number. ... You can't have a good season unless it starts well," said Bill Martin, co-founder of ShopperTrak, citing strength across all regions. "It's very encouraging. When you look at September and October, shoppers weren't in the stores."
Unnamed sources are too involved in the Great Depression to comment.
Now thats funny!
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Winston Churchill
Posts: 623 | Location: lefortovo | Registered: 09 February 2006
They always say that, you can't believe a word of it.
The reason is, most people just do what everyone else is doing. If they convince you everyone else is spending, it makes everyone spend more. The spending can never stop until people realize they are being lied to
-- The only time we see the middle of the road is as we run from side to side. R.O.Clark
Posts: 3959 | Location: Santa Fe | Registered: 11 June 2003
I’m sure your right Gnarl, it ‘s all part of a secret right wing conspiracy. <wink>
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Winston Churchill
Posts: 623 | Location: lefortovo | Registered: 09 February 2006
All of these dire predictions from progressives never seem to turn out do they? Depression, regression, crashes, they never materialize. It must really suck for progressives.
You get some bad economic news and they are ecstatic, they think here it is, the crash we have been predicting, hoping and praying for. They think “we will be proven right this time, capitalism is unsustainable, now everyone will believe us and we can implement are socialistic plans.”
But, then the next month the economic numbers are reversed, the progs are depressed, “it must all be lies, we can’t have good economic news, it must be a conspiracy.”
I find it to be good entertainment.
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Winston Churchill
Posts: 623 | Location: lefortovo | Registered: 09 February 2006
They always say that, you can't believe a word of it.
My business is directly related to retail, and we do business nationwide.
For the first three weeks of November we were up a teeny bit over last year, and for black Friday week we were way up over '06.
For retailers, the year to year increase is promising. Even more promising is the fact that the earliest possible Thanksgiving date means there are there are more shopping days between Thanksgiving and Christmas.
Posts: 1807 | Location: West Michigan | Registered: 23 June 2005
US online retail sales have been growing at better-than-expected rates in the run-up to the holidays, according to Wall Street analysts and internet retailers.
The news mirrors the robust start to the holiday shopping season reported by traditional retailers.
Raul Vazquez, chief executive of Walmart.com, said the retailer had seen sales on the Friday after Thanksgiving holiday “exceed our expectations” of 40-60 per cent annual growth.
Over the holiday weekend, sales had grown 45 per cent on last year, although the seasonal pick-up in demand had come later than last year.
I heard that men shop more on-line than women, and it is true in my house. I guess us men know what we want before we [shop]. I buy ton’s O stuff on-line, my wife has to be driven to it, like an Amazon gift certificate. Say’s she has to actually see and pick it up b4 she will buy it.
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Winston Churchill
Posts: 623 | Location: lefortovo | Registered: 09 February 2006
I'm not fond of shopping. There are some tings I have to see, and maybe feel, and maybe even try on before I buy them. There are others, for example new books by favourite authors, where I am quite happy to buy them unseen.
There is also a matter of trust, particulary items where there is a higher probability that you may need to return them. High Street shops have had longer to build up a name for trustworthiness than online stores, but more and more online stores are getting a track record.
Sue N.
Posts: 4624 | Location: UK | Registered: 16 November 2004
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