And, although i havnt read Marx, what appears to be missing from all the critique is the issue of central banking and the conrol that has.

Kate, I am not sure what this means:

quote:

I saw that your Thom's board commentary had hit the memory tube

My purpose of my blog was never to denograte any other blog, although you have pointed out that it lacked respect to others. I can again show you the links of what I thought my blog was about. Mostly to gather information and to discuss it even if just amongst me, myself and I.

So if you can explain what you observed or didn't then let me know. I promise any post on my blog will not be deleted unless profanity unbecoming.

Mr. Keith, yes I read your links to Leon Trotsky before. And do not see any example of modern day communism needing democracy. But what do I know I am just a bobble head.

It seems strange that Marx used the phrase "Dictatorship of the proletariat" in the same format as "opium of the masses". It would have been more logical to have it be dicratorship by the proletariat. So from my perspective it would be more likely that a liberal democracy can achieve the communist man better than the socialist/fascist states that have tried.

Ronald,

I don't trust you, and it will take quite some doing to earn my trust. Deleting material will not help the cause.

As for your blog, to help build my trust, ... just link the pages (which I have read) (yes, on your blog, and yes, on a previous day) ... in which you called Ren a troll and Sunrise a communist. I didn't see them. I did see a well-sanitized version of your forays into the Thom Hartmann board discussion.

I'm not interested enough in your blog to click File, Save As for purposes of proving you are a liar, because you provide plenty of evidence in your discussions here, and because when you disappear there will be another you to help me keep honest ... I've catalogued you in the "recurring boil" category. I met my first "boil" in 2001 (summer) and what a crazy old time that was. As Bonnie may recall, that boil's name was Ron too. I'm sure there's no relation...

If you can't, don't, won't (return your blog to its original posting), ... then it's gone into your memory tube. And that's that, almost ...

Whoaaaa doggy.
I have not deleted or substantially changed anything on my blog besides edidting something that I may have come accross that was poorly written.
I think you were looking at recent writings and Sunrise and Ren were taking quotes from September. To find those entries use the search this blog button on top or use the archive links on the left grouped by month. If you want me to find specific links to my blog or information, I will be happy to asist.

The most recent you may have seen are the GPI indicators 4 posts and some economic interest stuff including the last one about CAFE standards. This post was because my dad and me talked about this over the holiday season (first Christmas season) and he said he wanted to read my blog.
I never showed you the GPI because I was not sure if the quality was that good and since the original information was so full of theory but of little facts it was hard to summarize without looking at the information more than once. But on this thread you had asked my opinion on the GPI and all the links that were used, which I never got back to you.

Hope you had a nice Christmas and are looking forward to your new years celebration on January 29th.

quote:

Rutherford:
Mr. Keith, yes I read your links to Leon Trotsky before. And do not see any example of modern day communism needing democracy. But what do I know I am just a bobble head.

It seems strange that Marx used the phrase "Dictatorship of the proletariat" in the same format as "opium of the masses". It would have been more logical to have it be dicratorship by the proletariat. So from my perspective it would be more likely that a liberal democracy can achieve the communist man better than the socialist/fascist states that have tried.

i think what Trotsky was saying was that without democracy there can be no communism, it cant exist without it. Of course, anyone can call anything or anyone communist, including governments, it is after all, just a word.

as for your Marx comments, i dont see how it, or anything for that matter, could be more logical. I'm pretty sure if you read through the wiki page on "Dictatorship of the proletariat" it would become clear why he phrased it that way. As for your follow up comment, again, the wiki page explains that liberal democray is seen by Marx to be 'dictatorship of the bourgeoisie', which is why there is the somewhat reluctant phrase of "Dictatorship of the proletariat" in the first place.

Hope that helps.

My contention is, that there could not be a shift from "dictatorship of the bourgeoisie" to "Dictatorship of the proletariat" without removal of the central banking system as it now stands.

"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws." - Mayer Amschel Rothschild, 1790

(My apologies for interfering with your content, Sunrise.)

Ronald, I don't care if you believe in everything in absolute opposition to what I believe; I just expect some honesty, and you aren't forthcoming with any. I'm relying on my own memory of what I read *on your blog before you deleted and finessed* and not on the copies of your blog that were imported to this board. Just ask PeeWee how clearly I remember the oddest little details...

Further, Ronald, we are not friends. I choose friends who are trustworthy. Provide a link to your poor judgment blog posts and I'll be satisfied you're actually trying to learn how to be forthright. Otherwise, just forget it, and then get back to the "work" of this conversation.

Sunrise has provided you with plenty of sources to read and questions to follow. But maybe you are both a liar and lazy, ... :shrug:

As far as elimination of the banking system and money, Pol Pot had a good attempt at that. Of course maybe it needed to be the elimination of all currency world wide for the experimentation to work.

Kate. sunrise and ren have already provided the links. So are you treating me like a dog?

I will get you a break down next week if you desire.

Cheers.

quote:

Rutherford:
As far as elimination of the banking system and money ...

Not sure if that had anything to do with anything i said, but just in case, i said nothing about the elimination of the banking system and money.

Hope that helps.

Ronald, I have no interest in pursuing your farce any further. Discuss the topics, and be forthright, and I'll leave you alone.

Maybe it is possible to have a banking system and not a central banking system but I doubt it.

quote:

My contention is, that there could not be a shift from "dictatorship of the bourgeoisie" to "Dictatorship of the proletariat" without removal of the central banking system as it now stands.

And Mr. Keith, I think I have made enough clues that "Rutherford" is a dangler and either needs a title or use one of my any other nicknames. I think "Ron the bobble head" sounds good.

quote:

Rutherford: And Mr. Keith, I think I have made enough clues that "Rutherford" is a dangler and either needs a title or use one of my any other nicknames. I think "Ron the bobble head" sounds good.

Get a grip, Rutherford. You have no audience for your creepy sense of humor.

quote:

Rutherford:
Maybe it is possible to have a banking system and not a central banking system but I doubt it.

Again, i'm not sure if that has anything to do with something i said, but just in case, i said nothing about not having a central bank, but merely the removal of the central banking system as it now stands.

quote:

And Mr. Keith, I think I have made enough clues that "Rutherford" is a dangler and either needs a title or use one of my any other nicknames. I think "Ron the bobble head" sounds good.

Given enough hints you mean?

Well i can only make a guess about what you mean by the word "dangler" as i'm not familiar with it being used that way. For the record i'm not the slightest bit bothered by the "Mr. Keith" address. I changed from Ron to Rutherford just after another poster had you and Ren mixed up. I tend to copy and paste peoples names, and at the time i believe it was Ron Rutherford, and i changed from Ron to Rutherford to save any future confusion. Can you confirm that want me to use either "Mr Rutherford" or change to something like "Ronald"? I can't imagine i would ignore a polite and reasonable request.

Yes hints is a better word. No jokes I can use now, according to Kate.

Yes I would like to be called Ronald, Mr. Rutherford, or shorten to RDR, RR.

Cheers.

But Kate, life is too short to be worked up over a board or what I say.

quote:

Ronald:
Yes I would like to be called Ronald, Mr. Rutherford, or shorten to RDR, RR.

Cheers.

No worries

The "true colors" of the NeoCons & PseudoCons & sheepulace are:

-- red
-- red; &
-- red

Just like their Red China buddies, just like the field of the Nazi flag, just like the flag of Joe Stalin.

It has nothing to do with communism or socialism -- it has everything to do with state-run collectivism, thought control, & perpetual war.

The NeoCons chose to paint themselves as "red staters." RisingRoach posts their little map that shows how the Rocky Mountains & the Great Salt Lake "voted Republican" & they're now painted Red.

Heh, Ronald. I'm a writer, and do this board stuff for fun myself. In your case, let's say it's a pro bono effort, to "help."

Raven. Nice to see you. I think.

Sunrise, sometimes you are unspeakably elegant.

Don't worry be happy.

Don't obfuscate; be honorable.

Sorry Kate...



Just got tired of seeing nothing in economics threads.

Hi Kate.
That's ironic that this holiday season when visiting my parents I finally got to see the Walton's after at least 20 years.

I always identified with John Boy.
What about you?

I'd like to see the GDP, the unemployment figures and inflation calculated the same way it was in the 70's. Then there would be something to compare to. I have the feeling it wouldn't be pretty for the Cheap Labor Conservatives.

quote:

pacecop: I'd like to see the GDP, the unemployment figures and inflation calculated the same way it was in the 70's.

What's the difference in how it was calculated then, and how it's calculated now?

***

Ronald, JohnBoy was the thinking protagonist whose point of view drove the assessment of each episode. So, sure.

It was a depression-era drama. Why did we have *that* depression? Did it have any connection to the GDP?

Yes, Kate you are right. But my memory could not even come up with one plot line-except for the one this last week. Most of the boy's characters were boring except for John Boy but I was interested in some of the plots with the girls (young women).

There really is no connection as you seem to imply between GDP and depressions-except the GDP is a guide to refer to a recession or a depression. If you would like the exact definitions I can come up with that if you wish. The GDP is like your speedometer in your car. It only measures the speed and can be used to measure velocity.

Any discussion of the great depression would take hours and hours. Another thread might be an interesting to discuss Ben S. Bernanke( web page) , who has a broad interest in depressions. So that discussion will have to wait.

As far as pacecop's observations, I was planning to look further into these issues but a quick summation from memory:
GDP has changed from GNP but that was more of an accounting change and did not change the numbers substantially. GDP was always calculated so we are not comparing apples to oranges.
Unemployment has always been calculated the same way, but that extensions on UE benefits raises the calculated UE level over the medium to long term.
Inflation is usually defined as Core CPI(Consumer Price Index) where before it was more usual to see CPI numbers. As I talked about before(above link) Core just takes out fuel and food prices which tend to change seasonly and thus more violatile than the more narrow core indicator. The numbers are available for both indexes. As one blogger put it Consumer Prices Plunge at Fastest Rate in 56 Years.

I didn't imply anything, Ronald. I asked an honest question, about the Great Depression. You have some background in economics, and you can say with or without certainty whether the GDP had anything to do with the depression of the 30s.

As for the plot lines for the Waltons, I don't remember any either. They were famously bland.

Sorry Kate, but again economist decide whether a depression or a recession as a lower GDP over time. GDP is just a gage of how hot or cold an economy is.

A little bit more of good news:

quote:

U.S. Dec. import price index falls 0.2%, 2nd straight drop By Rex Nutting
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) - Prices of goods imported into the United States fell for the second consecutive month in December as petroleum prices dropped again, the Labor Department said Thursday. Import prices fell 0.2% in December after a revised 1.8% decline in November. Economists were expecting import prices to rise 0.1%. Excluding petroleum, import prices were unchanged in December. Excluding all fuels, prices increased 0.2%. Export prices, meanwhile, increased 0.1% in December. Excluding agricultural goods, export prices increased 0.1%. web page