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Moderator
Picture of bill king
Posted
if you were loyal to the company you worked for, did a good job and gained years of experience with them, your position with the company became more secure as time went by.

This is as it should be.

Dedication and hard work has its rewards...

until now...

quote:
Circuit City Cuts 3,400 'Overpaid' Workers

Circuit City fired 3,400 employees in stores across the country yesterday, saying they were making too much money and would be replaced by new hires willing to work for less.

The company said the dismissals had nothing to do with performance but were part of a larger effort to improve the bottom line. The firings represent about 9 percent of the company's in-store workforce of 40,000


ok, but that isn't the worst of it...

quote:
Circuit City chief executive Philip J. Schoonover

received a salary of $716,346, along with a $704,700 bonus last year.
He also has long-term compensation of $3 million in stock awards and $340,000 in underlying options, according to company filings


Gee, I wonder if "smiley" cut his own salary as part of this company-wide cost cutting program?

link


"These things which man purports to admire-the noble, the brilliant, the splendid-these are the very things he cannot tolerate when he finds them."-----Mark Clifton
 
Posts: 5565 | Location: hoffman estates il | Registered: 01 April 2003Report This Post
GG
Posted Hide Post
bill king - I'm dissapointed with the title of your thread and its contents. I was looking forward to going into the world of make believe even for a little while inorder to get away from the shocking realities of the following:

quote:
The US National Guard has been insanely prohibited from using its weapons against armed drug dealers and others at the US-Mexico border. They have been warned that they are to only provide support for the US Border Patrol. This dictate came from the US government and, presumably, the Mexican government as well. Now, Democrat leaders are planning to apply this policy to US troops fighting terrorists in Iraq.

In an attempt to usurp and end the Executive branch of government’s Constitutional powers and ability to wage wars, Democrats are planning to issue legislation that would take all US troops out of a combat role and place them into the tenuous and hazardous position of a ‘support role’—only. Note: We presume this attempt to seize power from the President of the United States only applies to Republican presidents.

With both their rhetoric and actions, Democrats continue to show the world that they are against the US and fully in agreement and alignment with the terrorists’ mission and goals. . .

link



Once upon a time Congressionals used the powers of their office in a more respectful manner and were not blatantly ANTiAmerican. They abided by the U. S. Constitution and were not directed by shari'a or European law.


* * * * * * * *
Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.
 
Posts: 6275 | Location: Maine | Registered: 31 December 2005Report This Post
GG
Posted Hide Post
Continuous investigations and pork spending on the backs of US troops, families, and businesses causes largest tax increase ever - -

quote:
House Dems Pushing for Largest Tax Increase in History

Pro-family experts say tax hike would devastate families

Tax relief signed by President Bush in 2001 and 2003 is scheduled to expire in 2010, and some Democratic lawmakers want to see it end – effectively raising taxes to the highest level in history.

Meanwhile, conservatives are demanding tax relief be made permanent.

In a budget-resolution package, Democrats promised to balance the national budget by 2012 by finding "$900 billion in additional revenues." What they don't spell out is that the money comes directly from Americans' pockets.

The budget proposal is slated for a vote Thursday in the U.S. House.

Brian Riedl, senior budget analyst for the Heritage Foundation, said liberals are working hard to convince Americans they're not really raising taxes.

"The fact is that in 2010, tax rates will increase and the government will begin collecting hundreds of billions of dollars more than if the tax rate stayed at the current level," he said. "A scheduled tax increase is still a tax increase."

The average tax hike per household would be more than $2,641 annually. In addition, the child tax credit would be reduced from $1,000 per child to $500, and the marriage penalty would be brought back into the tax code.

According to Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, if the president's tax relief is not made permanent, a family of four earning $50,000 would see taxes go up 132 percent. A single parent with two children earning $30,000 would see taxes raised 67 percent.

And the billions lifted from America's families would all be spent by bureaucrats, Riedl said.

"That's money that could otherwise go for groceries, child expenses, school expenses, the mortgage and bills," he said.

Andy Roth, director of government affairs at The Club for Growth, added that the billions quickly turn into trillions.

"You go into trillions when you go out to 10 years," he said. "The fact that the Bush tax cuts 'expire' is the word game they're playing – it's a tax hike."

Democrats point to the budget deficit, but Roth called that a losing argument.

"The deficit is quickly shrinking and a lot of people believe that the budget is going to be balanced by the end of 2008," he said, "a lot sooner than people would have thought."

The real motivation is Democrats want to increase spending on their favorite programs, he said.

Riedl agreed.

"The Democrats will take the trillions of dollars in tax increases and first put a couple hundred billion dollars toward spending increases even above the spending spree we've seen since 2001," he said. "The rest of the money will likely go towards paying Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid -- because they absolutely refuse to pare back those programs whose budgets are growing out of control."

link


Not exactly a soothing bedtime story - - reality is tough!


* * * * * * * *
Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.
 
Posts: 6275 | Location: Maine | Registered: 31 December 2005Report This Post
Moderator
Picture of bill king
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GG

Your 2 posts are what as known as "hijacking" a thread, which is the practice of posting something totally unrelated to the topic, which disrupts the continuity of the thread and, in this case, doesn't even belong in this section.

If you want to bitch about something that has toi do with the Iraq war, please do it on an appropriate thread in that section.
Smiler


"These things which man purports to admire-the noble, the brilliant, the splendid-these are the very things he cannot tolerate when he finds them."-----Mark Clifton
 
Posts: 5565 | Location: hoffman estates il | Registered: 01 April 2003Report This Post
Picture of PeeWee Returns
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Gee, I wonder if "smiley" cut his own salary as part of this company-wide cost cutting program?


It wouldn't have made much difference in the big picture if you would have read the whole article. CC expects this move to save over a hundred million this year and a hundred million plus next year. At most, his salary (which is pretty modest for a business this size) isn't consequential in the grand scheme of things.

In fact, the reason he gets a salary like this is his spine for making decisions like this. I guess the investors agree. CC stock close up after the announcement.
 
Posts: 1807 | Location: West Michigan | Registered: 23 June 2005Report This Post
Moderator
Picture of bill king
Posted Hide Post
quote:
In fact, the reason he gets a salary like this is his spine for making decisions like this.


You think it takes spine to do what he did?

What he did was coined the "jellyfish maneuver", so named due to the lack of spine displayed in standing up to the stockholders in defense of the employees who helped make the company what it is today through years of loyal service.


"These things which man purports to admire-the noble, the brilliant, the splendid-these are the very things he cannot tolerate when he finds them."-----Mark Clifton
 
Posts: 5565 | Location: hoffman estates il | Registered: 01 April 2003Report This Post
Picture of PeeWee Returns
Posted Hide Post
quote:
the lack of spine displayed in standing up to the stockholders in defense of the employees


Bill, I do business with Circuit City. They are in a tough spot - Best Buy and the discounters are working hard to put them out of business.

You think Schoonover should "stand up" to the shareholders? He was hired by the shareholders to act in their best interest.

I haven't looked at their income statement, but I'll betcha wages are one of their biggest expenses, and one of the few they have control over.

I'm sure the move looks heartless, and there was certainly a human cost. But without moves like this, maybe Circuit City wouldn't be around. Would that be a better altnernative - to have the whole company go under?
 
Posts: 1807 | Location: West Michigan | Registered: 23 June 2005Report This Post
Moderator
Picture of bill king
Posted Hide Post
Peewee,

I will admit that my comments were imediate kneejerk reaction to the article about circut city, but the facts speak for themselves...

YOU CAN"T TREAT PEOPLE THAT WAY AND EXPECT TO SUCCEED

You have a business Peewee and you KNOW that getting rid of you most experoenced, loyal and higher paid people would be a mistake. Well thguess what, I think CC is already finding out the folly of this move.

Pearlstien says it better than I can...

quote:
But you have to hand it to Circuit City. Without spending a dime for advertising or public relations, it managed to send a powerful message to its major constituencies.

It has made clear to consumers that it doesn't give a fig about service or being a good member of the community.

It has let store employees know they have jobs, not careers, and shouldn't expect much of a raise, no matter how long they stay or how well they perform.


quote:
Now that things are looking up, top executives decided to reward the people who helped engineer the turnaround with a pink slip and a piddling severance check, telling them they'd have to wait 10 weeks to reapply for their old jobs, at lower pay.


quote:
And investors now know that their company is so cavalier about reputational risk that, for $100 million or so in annual cost savings, it is willing to become the symbol of everything that is rotten about American capitalism. So far, Wall Street's reaction has been to discount Circuit City shares by about 5 1/2 percent.


I hope they get rid of that jerk CEO and the rest of the idiot management involved in that business blunder.


"These things which man purports to admire-the noble, the brilliant, the splendid-these are the very things he cannot tolerate when he finds them."-----Mark Clifton
 
Posts: 5565 | Location: hoffman estates il | Registered: 01 April 2003Report This Post
Moderator
Picture of bill king
Posted Hide Post
Circuit City, I’ll never shop you again



quote:
CC's bottom line has shown some distress, lately. $110 million will be saved by this move, Circuit City says.

But I say to CC to not jump the gun on your math. I and millions of other discriminating technology and appliance buyers will opt for alternative chains where short-sighted parsimony and cruelty are not at the heart of policy. Places such as BestBuy and Fry's come to mind.


link


"These things which man purports to admire-the noble, the brilliant, the splendid-these are the very things he cannot tolerate when he finds them."-----Mark Clifton
 
Posts: 5565 | Location: hoffman estates il | Registered: 01 April 2003Report This Post
Moderator
Picture of bill king
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Hopely this post qualifies for "Once upon a time" - -

Americans had a right to use private ballots
for union elections.


No it doesn't GG and based on the amount of posts you have made in this forum I have to wonder if you haven't mistreated many other threads in a similar manner. Then I have to ask myself if it is an intentional act of sabatoge on your part or just a simple-minded need for attention. Either way, I am beginning to think I made a mistake in how I admonished my friend Mike for complaining about you. Mike will no longer post here and if I treated him unfairly in defending you it upsets me big time.

So I am warning you now and anyone else reading this, posting unrelated matter on a thread is considered troll behavior and can result in being banned.


"These things which man purports to admire-the noble, the brilliant, the splendid-these are the very things he cannot tolerate when he finds them."-----Mark Clifton
 
Posts: 5565 | Location: hoffman estates il | Registered: 01 April 2003Report This Post
GG
Posted Hide Post
bill king
quote:
I made a mistake in how I admonished my friend Mike for complaining about you. Mike will no longer post here and if I treated him unfairly in defending you it upsets me big time.

You defended ME? You perceived that I needed defending? Red Face

I desire to abide by the rules and I believe I am abiding by the rules, bill king. THis is a discussion forum is it not? I recognize my discussions do not 'come along side' of anybody here. Even so-called conservatives shun what I post and yet I do get an occasional few words of encouragement. Is it more of a personal matter with you (that you can only ask yourself. Am I pushing buttons?)?

I am respectful and you know full well I have been treated disresptfully. It's a risk to be treated as such, but I consider it well worth the risk. I'm not counting the cost but standing for principle.

"Once Upon A TIME" - is excusively your thoughts only? Since when has a thread supported the initiator's position exculsively and no other participants are allowed to bring in OTHER facets or aspects of the issue?

I submit to you allegations of invading YOUR thread and I will delete the post I believed added good dimension to the "once upon a time" in our great nation we had certain rights now being removed so fast that it makes one's head spin.

Please extend to Mike my sincere BEST WISHES.


* * * * * * * *
Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.
 
Posts: 6275 | Location: Maine | Registered: 31 December 2005Report This Post
Picture of PeeWee Returns
Posted Hide Post
quote:
I and millions of other discriminating technology and appliance buyers will opt for alternative chains where short-sighted parsimony and cruelty are not at the heart of policy


Bill, that's a powerful sentiment, but I'll bet most people will not be so high minded if they can save an extra fifty bucks on that new flat screen at Circuit City.

And just for the record, I don't normally shop at Circuit City. That last time I bought a nice TV, I bought it from a local family owned place. They offered to deliver it, install it, and they replaced all of cables and stuff for free when they were here. They got my business for life.
 
Posts: 1807 | Location: West Michigan | Registered: 23 June 2005Report This Post
GG
Posted Hide Post
PeeWee - Did you offer a book at one time? I tried to contact you on it and no success.


* * * * * * * *
Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.
 
Posts: 6275 | Location: Maine | Registered: 31 December 2005Report This Post
Moderator
Picture of bill king
Posted Hide Post
quote:
That last time I bought a nice TV, I bought it from a local family owned place. They offered to deliver it, install it, and they replaced all of cables and stuff for free when they were here. They got my business for life.


While your words defend the perpetrators of the problem, your actions denounce them.

Interesting, yet puzzling.


"These things which man purports to admire-the noble, the brilliant, the splendid-these are the very things he cannot tolerate when he finds them."-----Mark Clifton
 
Posts: 5565 | Location: hoffman estates il | Registered: 01 April 2003Report This Post
Picture of Slabmaster
Posted Hide Post
Cicuit City is a place I've looked at for bargains, not lifetime employees that can dazzle me with their years of experience.

Like Peewee, I bought the last couple TV's from the local smaller shop that provided better service and came close enough in price.
Every time I've been in a discount electronics store, I don't want to talk to the sales clerk.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."

Theodore Roosevelt, 1913

 
Posts: 2404 | Location: Redmond WA | Registered: 04 September 2006Report This Post
Moderator
Picture of bill king
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Cicuit City is a place I've looked at for bargains, not lifetime employees that can dazzle me with their years of experience.

Like Peewee, I bought the last couple TV's from the local smaller shop that provided better service and came close enough in price.


Once again the actions speak for themselves.

You say you are not interested in experience, yet you want service. Better service comes with a more experienced staff.

But I think I see what is going on here...

You and Peewee are both small business owners, so naturally you want to place yourself on the side of business vs the side of the employee in any discussion or debate, but now you are confronted with the reality that the big corporations use these dispicable, heartless tactics to lower their costs, thereby making it impossible for small businesses like yours to compete.

Then you have the issue of community, all those people thrown out on the street had families and Circut City wasn't facing bankruptcy or even operating in the red. It was just a move to increase profit.

It doesn't matter what kind of business you are in, sooner or later, the big dogs will come after your slice of the pie. When they do you will be whistling a different tune, but then it will be too late for you.

Unless you own a franchise, which gives you immunity against the big dogs because you are actually just one of their employees, with an investment.


"These things which man purports to admire-the noble, the brilliant, the splendid-these are the very things he cannot tolerate when he finds them."-----Mark Clifton
 
Posts: 5565 | Location: hoffman estates il | Registered: 01 April 2003Report This Post
Picture of PeeWee Returns
Posted Hide Post
Bill said:
quote:
While your words defend the perpetrators of the problem, your actions denounce them.


You're trying your best to paint me as a hypocrite, but it isn't going to work. How did I "denounce" them? I do lots and lots of business with them and Best Buy, and I hope they make lots of money.

What they offer - low prices and self service - is not what I want. For people who want low prices and self service, they deliver in spades. For people like you who can't figure out the difference, all you can focus on is the CEO's salary, which is irrelavant to all of this.

quote:
You and Peewee are both small business owners, so naturally you want to place yourself on the side of business vs the side of the employee in any discussion or debate,


I'm not sure that statement is true. I could say the same about you: you put yourself on the side of the employee in any discussion or debate. I suspect the real world is not as absolute as it is in Bill's mind.

quote:
but now you are confronted with the reality that the big corporations use these dispicable, heartless tactics to lower their costs, thereby making it impossible for small businesses like yours to compete.


Bill, you lost me there. My small business prospers when Circuit City and Best Buy prosper. They are partners of mine, along with a couple of hundred other retailers. I'm doing quite well thank you, and hope Circuit City and Best Buy do well too.
 
Posts: 1807 | Location: West Michigan | Registered: 23 June 2005Report This Post
Moderator
Picture of bill king
Posted Hide Post
quote:
They are partners of mine, along with a couple of hundred other retailers.


I don't even know what it is you do Peewee, what do you mean you are partnered with them?


"These things which man purports to admire-the noble, the brilliant, the splendid-these are the very things he cannot tolerate when he finds them."-----Mark Clifton
 
Posts: 5565 | Location: hoffman estates il | Registered: 01 April 2003Report This Post
Picture of Slabmaster
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bill king:
Once again the actions speak for themselves.

You say you are not interested in experience, yet you want service. Better service comes with a more experienced staff.

But I think I see what is going on here...

You and Peewee are both small business owners, so naturally you want to place yourself on the side of business vs the side of the employee in any discussion or debate, but now you are confronted with the reality that the big corporations use these dispicable, heartless tactics to lower their costs, thereby making it impossible for small businesses like yours to compete.

Then you have the issue of community, all those people thrown out on the street had families and Circut City wasn't facing bankruptcy or even operating in the red. It was just a move to increase profit.

It doesn't matter what kind of business you are in, sooner or later, the big dogs will come after your slice of the pie. When they do you will be whistling a different tune, but then it will be too late for you.

Unless you own a franchise, which gives you immunity against the big dogs because you are actually just one of their employees, with an investment.


For a seemingly smart guy, you got it all wrong once again Bill.

What you see as "experience" is nothing more than basic customer service. It is how the business operates. It is what they tell their employees to do/act/etc...

I don't have a sense of community as you see it. I buy from who benifits me. In my case, Magnolia Hi Fi is the electronics king. I couldn't care less about the lifetime employees, I care about what they do for me. The big retailers miss the sale with lack of ass kissing to people that buy. Maybe that is the vast experience you speak of, but it doesn't seem like rocket surgury to me.

The big dogs are all around me. I enjoy taking work from them. To think that they will take away our slice of the pie is to not understand one % of what we do. Thats OK, I don't expect you to get it.

I own 2 franchises and one separate constuction company. It doesn't give us any immunity to cometition and certainly doesn't make us anyones employee.
More clueless armchair quarterbacking.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."

Theodore Roosevelt, 1913

 
Posts: 2404 | Location: Redmond WA | Registered: 04 September 2006Report This Post
Moderator
Picture of bill king
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quote:
own 2 franchises and one separate constuction company. It doesn't give us any immunity to cometition and certainly doesn't make us anyones employee.
More clueless armchair quarterbacking.


I may have let that comment slide, if you hadn't accused me of being a clueless armchair quarterback. The fact is, I owned a financial services business, with 18 full time employees, 3 locations and was doing 10,000 sales a year.

This was no franchise and along with the greater risks came greater rewards. Unfortunately, my business failed, due mostly to economic conditions, but I gained a world of insight into owning a small/medium sized business.

Your construction company qualifies as a stand-alone business and, as you already know, has serious competition from the big companies out there. Unless the business atmosphere changes in there near future, all business will be conducted by a handful of huge multi-national corporations.


"These things which man purports to admire-the noble, the brilliant, the splendid-these are the very things he cannot tolerate when he finds them."-----Mark Clifton
 
Posts: 5565 | Location: hoffman estates il | Registered: 01 April 2003Report This Post
Picture of Slabmaster
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bill king:

I may have let that comment slide, if you hadn't accused me of being a clueless armchair quarterback. The fact is, I owned a financial services business, with 18 full time employees, 3 locations and was doing 10,000 sales a year.


Hot damn.

quote:

This was no franchise and along with the greater risks came greater rewards. Unfortunately, my business failed, due mostly to economic conditions, but I gained a world of insight into owning a small/medium sized business.


Maybe franchising would have been a good option.
There are always lessons to learn. Economic condition can certainly affect many businesses.

quote:

Your construction company qualifies as a stand-alone business and, as you already know, has serious competition from the big companies out there. Unless the business atmosphere changes in there near future, all business will be conducted by a handful of huge multi-national corporations.


This is where I stand by my comment of clueless armchair quarterbacking.
I'm not sure how you "qualify" my businesses and by what standards, but all are at the risk of failure as well as success. A franchise is not a get out of jail free card that assures fortune and glory. Franchises fail just like any other business fails and for the same reasons.
The difference is generally that a brand name has been established and is accepted as a better product (in a nutshell).

Bill, if you believe that "all business will be conducted by a handful of huge multi-national corportations", let me add misguided paranoia to my earlier comments. I don't mean it in a persoanal way, I just think you are 180 degrees off and have no idea what you are talking about.
Your preconcieved notions about franchising and business in general is revealing.
There are bigger companies out there. So what. I welcome the competition.
We just offer what they don't and do it better.
Sometimes those bigger companies buy up little guys like me, and when the offer is big enough, that will make my day.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."

Theodore Roosevelt, 1913

 
Posts: 2404 | Location: Redmond WA | Registered: 04 September 2006Report This Post
Moderator
Picture of bill king
Posted Hide Post
quote:
The difference is generally that a brand name has been established and is accepted as a better product (in a nutshell).


This is far more important than you make it sound. There is also a gazillion other diferences that can make or break a small business, like discounted inventory, national advertizing and a wealth of experience gleaned from other franchises across the country.

Having the mega-corporation behind you is invaluable to staying in business. It is in their best interests to keep your franchise running, so they will do everything in their power to help you.

I should temper that statement with in most cases.

Some companies are out there just to sell franchises, with very little continuing support for their franchisees down the road.

Anyway, the bottom line is franchises are much easier to run and maintain but usually require a much higher initial investment (McDonalds is half a million to 1 million typically)

My business, for example, only cost me around 25,000 to start.


"These things which man purports to admire-the noble, the brilliant, the splendid-these are the very things he cannot tolerate when he finds them."-----Mark Clifton
 
Posts: 5565 | Location: hoffman estates il | Registered: 01 April 2003Report This Post
Picture of Slabmaster
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True. There is more to it.
The franchisee has to run the business profitably.
A franchisor can only provide a proven product and/or system along with some support.
It pays to choose carefully.

Most franchises that fail do so because the system is not followed. I looked at several before choosing what would work for me and who I wanted to be involved with.
As with any business, there is no gaurantee you won't screw it up.
You touched on one subject that is very important. Our relationships with other franchisee's is huge in learning what to do and what to not do.
I will never be as creative as some, but I can learn from others who are better at this than I am.

Franchises are designed to give someone a plan or working model. They theoretically should be easier. Theories look great on paper.
My first franchise was $28,500. Second was about the same.
The equipment inventory over the years is several million.
Our construction company was a business licence and the hiring of a manager to start. We started by subbing out all work. Now we sub out very