More words of wisdom from Cal Thomas. Are you listening Thom et al?
quote:
For the sake of argument, let's say former CIA Director George Tenet is right in his book and that Vice President Dick Cheney pushed too hard with questionable or inaccurate intelligence because of a predisposition to go to war in Iraq and topple Saddam Hussein. So what? We can't go back and fix the mistakes of the past. Only two choices are available: victory or defeat......
.....Al-Saif declares American morale is declining and "…our battle against the enemy is first and foremost the will to fight and the length of the battle does not rest with the cross worshippers." He calls for his fighters to "be patient" and Allah will give them victory. Patience is not one of America's virtues.
Do the war's opponents realize, or care, that every critical statement they make is reported by the enemy's media and passed on to homicide bombers and fighters to encourage them to keep killing Americans and Iraqis?.....
.....It's shameful that so many Democrats running for president appear ready to accept defeat and retreat if it advances their presidential prospects, no matter the prospects for the security of Iraq, the Middle East and the United States.
When we fight ourselves, the real enemy gains.
"Although America has problems, America is not the problem"
Posts: 986 | Location: Humboldt | Registered: 09 November 2005
Originally posted by Seahawkfan: More words of wisdom from Cal Thomas. Are you listening Thom et al?
quote:
For the sake of argument, let's say former CIA Director George Tenet is right in his book and that Vice President Dick Cheney pushed too hard with questionable or inaccurate intelligence because of a predisposition to go to war in Iraq and topple Saddam Hussein. So what? We can't go back and fix the mistakes of the past. Only two choices are available: victory or defeat......
.....Al-Saif declares American morale is declining and "…our battle against the enemy is first and foremost the will to fight and the length of the battle does not rest with the cross worshippers." He calls for his fighters to "be patient" and Allah will give them victory. Patience is not one of America's virtues.
Do the war's opponents realize, or care, that every critical statement they make is reported by the enemy's media and passed on to homicide bombers and fighters to encourage them to keep killing Americans and Iraqis?.....
.....It's shameful that so many Democrats running for president appear ready to accept defeat and retreat if it advances their presidential prospects, no matter the prospects for the security of Iraq, the Middle East and the United States.
When we fight ourselves, the real enemy gains.
This is the same reasoning we gave for Vietnam. 50,000 U.S. dead. For what? President Eisenhower, in his book, said we couldn't let the north have the south because they would sell its tin to Communist China, so he ordered in troops. Now we sell them tin. 50,000 dead...for what?
Do we look back on Iraq in 15 years and say, 50,000 dead. For What...in 15 years a now dried up oil field?
We keep it up, the entire Middle East will be involved and no one will have any oil! Muslims in every Middle East country want us out. If Saudi Arabia falls to its own irate people, then what? GWB has created the biggest fiasco I have ever seen in my long,long life.
Retired Monk
Posts: 3412 | Location: denver co | Registered: 17 April 2007
Democrats do not listen to what our enemies are saying.
It is foolish to say al Quaeda was not in Iraq before 9-11
Terrorists prefer Democrats to win over Republicans
Terrorists played the victory song when Democrats won last November because they know Democrats do not understand and are a piece of cake talking interface dialog and avoiding the issues
Muslims hate and fear George Bush because of his "cowboy" attitude
Terrorists use women and children to hide and as shields
Democrats do not listen to what our enemies are saying, and unless we take them seriously America will lose because they hate
* * * * * * * * Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.
Posts: 6275 | Location: Maine | Registered: 31 December 2005
Madame Traitor: An Arab-American's Perspective on Pelosi in Damascus
Madame Traitor: An Arab-American’s Perspective on Pelosi in Damascus By Emilio Karim Dabul
Nancy Pelosi is to world diplomacy what Michael Jordan was to baseball: completely forgettable and unnecessary. But unlike Michael’s slightly amusing foray into the Babe’s world, there’s nothing funny about Pelosi in Damascus. The terrorists and their supporters, who are always looking for weak links and signs that the US does not have the will or backbone to win the war we’re fighting with them, just found a great ally in Madame Speaker. .. .
Nancy Pelosi either doesn’t understand, .. she’s being used by the very people who want to destroy us in another round of window dressing, subterfuge, and deceit. I suspect that Pelosi knows this, but is more intent on trying to undermine the President than in looking at how she could best support national security. link
* * * * * * * * Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.
Posts: 6275 | Location: Maine | Registered: 31 December 2005
The commission headed by James Baker III (otherwise known as JAB III), right-hand man & Sec. of State to G.H.W. Bush recommended talks with Iran & Syria
Brent Scowcroft, G.H.W. Bush's NSA & best friend, opposed Op Iraqi Freedom
So, are these very prominent REPUBLICANS in favor of Sharia law being forced upon the US?
GG, Seahawkfan & Cal Thomas: "bat-crap crazy" (to the tune of Ted Nugent's "Cat Scratch Fever")
# Muslims hate and fear George Bush because of his "cowboy" attitude
Thats why Bush and Bin Laden families have been business partners for years and Haliburton relocated to Dubai.
Can someone define "victory" and get passed the slogans.
"a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. But the tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason."
Posts: 1944 | Location: Beautiful New Paltz, NY | Registered: 04 July 2006
If you lie about reasons for going into a war to begin with and then turn around and call us terrorists because we don't support it, don't you think that's unfair?
Why should we blindly follow you into YOUR hole of your own making? We told you not to dig that hole to begin with. This war is EXACTLY what we warned you of and it's not over yet. When it's all over, the entire Arab world could be in flames and fuel prices at $10 a gallon.
Be honest with yourself, Iraq WAS NEVER THE WAR ON TERROR as it was framed by Dufus. Afghanistan was but NOT Iraq. 911 was simply an excuse to settle old scores. It's a fact; they were gunning to kill some brown people in Iraq BEFORE 911, the terrorist attack just gave them an excuse. These pricks then went on their PR campaign and sold the lie that Iraq was "in on it." Vietnam was a lie sold to us and Iraq is a lie that was sold to us. Why would they need to sell a war? Shouldn't the need to go to war sell itself? I don't support lies.
And just because the grand dummy in the white house didn't know better doesn't make it right.
WE TOLD YOU THIS WAR WAS A MISTAKE FROM THE BEGINNING! WE TOLD YOU! GET IT? YOU CAN'T SUDDENLY TELL US TO SUPPORT SOMETHING WE NEVER SUPPORTED TO BEGIN WITH.
It's like intentionally spilling a bowl of milk on the floor and telling us, that didn't spill, to clean it up. Man, are you people just insane?
Did you ever hear Powell's doctrine on war?
1. Is a vital national security interest threatened? 2. Do we have a clear attainable objective? 3. Have the risks and costs been fully and frankly analyzed? 4. Have all other non-violent policy means been fully exhausted? 5. Is there a plausible exit strategy to avoid endless entanglement? 6. Have the consequences of our action been fully considered? 7. Is the action supported by the American people? 8. Do we have genuine broad international support?
I wonder why Powell isn't being tagged as a terrorist? Obviously, he should be against this war. Oh that's right, he sold his soul to the devil so he's OK.
When OUR PRESIDENT LIES to get us into a war of choice, the real enemy gains.
I know you're little quote sounds good to you and it would be true if not for all that this Boy King has done to thwart the truth. Reality doesn't support this sort of hype. The war was a mistake, admit it. IT CANNOT BE WON. In fact, we have already lost and your Big Dummy in the White House is lying to you again by telling you that there is no civil war and that this can be won. You know it can't be won. This is a war in which the lines between good and bad are hard to find.
Stop deceiving yourself and stop letting your King lie to us. Real lives are still be lost to this lie.
We had the Arab world on our side after 911 and then Dufus spoiled it with his crusade against Iraq.
WE TOLD YOU THIS WAR WAS A MISTAKE FROM THE BEGINNING! WE TOLD YOU! GET IT? YOU CAN'T SUDDENLY TELL US TO SUPPORT SOMETHING WE NEVER SUPPORTED TO BEGIN WITH.
Is everything in your world so black and white? If you threw a ball through a neighbors window, would you just get your ball back or would you get the window fixed as well? That's what we did. We made a mistake, now we have to fix it. We can't fix it unless we are there.
I don't care what kind of government Iraq ends up with but I do care that they maintain their independance. If we leave early, I believe they will lose it and that will lead us into a larger conflict.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
YOU FIX IT YOU JOIN YOU take the political hit for losing this war. YOU take responsibility for putting us there. YOU apologize for making the mistake.
No, that's the point. It's not black and white but look back at the terms in which this war was sold...Black & White. We knew this issue in Iraq would be hard to solve because it was so complex.
Do you remember this? "you're either with us or against us." Good vs Evil? Remember all the propaganda?
WE knew from the beginning that this war was not a black and white issue. That's why we TOLD YOU it would be a disaster from day one.
The real problem is that "YOU" thought this war would be over in a month. THEY WERE WRONG.
I didn't make any mistake pal and it's doesn't matter if your caps button is stuck or not. We have a choice as Americans, (incase the distinction is lost on you) we can spend our energy wringing our hands about the past or we can look to the future and try to determine what we can do to stabilize the region and promote peace in the world. Pulling out and letting mother nature fix it isn't the answer.
Rub your crystal ball and and tell us what you think will happen if Iraq if we leave suddenly. Will roses suddenly bloom in the desert or will the Shia, Kurds, Sunni's, Syrians, and Iranians all rush in to fill the power vacuum, killing everyone who opposes them?
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
Rub your crystal ball and and tell us what you think will happen if Iraq if we leave suddenly. Will roses suddenly bloom in the desert or will the Shia, Kurds, Sunni's, Syrians, and Iranians all rush in to fill the power vacuum, killing everyone who opposes them?
Same thing that happened for the past 1300 years before these bumbling idiots stumbled in there. They'll find a way to set up a nasty and delicate truce once the bull's out of the shop crushing all pottery.
WE knew from the beginning that this war was not a black and white issue. That's why we TOLD YOU it would be a disaster from day one.
You didn't tell me anything. Ask someone who was around here before the war started whether I thought it was a good idea. Don't take my word for it but this is what I said:
There is no such thing as WMD. Chemical weapons are area denial weapons. Biological weapons are nearly impossible to spread on a mass basis and radiological weapons need a delivery system that Iraq doesn't have that can reach us.
The war would be too expensive. Why build a new power grid in Iraq when we need one in California.
Saddam was someone else's despot. If Iraqi's could put up with him, so could I.
That was my position before the war so don't get holy with me and don't try to tell me what I think. The difference between you and I is that your way will lead to a UN resolution similar to the one that freed Kuwait and we'll wind up with a bigger war and a larger problem. You are short sighted and blinded by your partisanship to the realities of a complex situation.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
ArtJunky and Sawdust; You're both right and you re both wrong This war was based upon lies and deceit. You are asking those who diden't support the occupation (and thats what it is) to say, "Well we're here now and so we cant' leave" We are now suppose to believe that this bunch of lying incompetents (George Tenet makes me sick-I have lost all respect for Colin Powell) can "finish the job "that they botched up and lied to us in the first place. Sorry, I may believe in miracles but you if you really believe these fools are going to solve the problems in the Middle East or stop terrorism I have a great deal on a bridge in Brooklyn. Sad truth is we can't leave. I don't want to see a tribal bloodbath and the area succumb to sectarian violence. I can think of of scenarios that might save face but as long as Haloburton and Black Water are holding the contracts, I am not holding my breadth.
"a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. But the tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason."
Posts: 1944 | Location: Beautiful New Paltz, NY | Registered: 04 July 2006
They'll find a way to set up a nasty and delicate truce once the bull's out of the shop crushing all pottery.
A clever way to describe genocide Grasshopper.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
They'll find a way to set up a nasty and delicate truce once the bull's out of the shop crushing all pottery.
A clever way to describe genocide Grasshopper.
You can't set up a government consisting of 3 groups of people who have irreconcilable differences unless you install a dictator. Let King George take charge. Better he be over there than over here.
Saddam was a tyrrant. And in removing him, we reduced Iraq to chaos.
Iraq is 3 nations, 3 very different peoples being forced to live as one. Can't be done unless you want a dictator in charge. Give King George a camel and a new job if you want to stay there.
Retired Monk
Posts: 3412 | Location: denver co | Registered: 17 April 2007
You said some things that were true, inbetween the things you said that were silly.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
I'm inclined to agree with what Ren said. There will be an abundance of bloodshed either way.
I don't think Iran will try to takeover Iraq. They'll supply weapons to the Shia, but that's not preventable. It seems likely to me that Iraq will remain independent, but splintered.
But let's assume Iran does go in to take territory. So what? What would be the result?
My caps button was NOT stuck. When the right doesn't listen for 5 years, shouting is necessary.
quote:
Will roses suddenly bloom in the desert or will the Shia, Kurds, Sunni's, Syrians, and Iranians all rush in to fill the power vacuum, killing everyone who opposes them?
Sounds like another black and white scenario. If you were a little honest with yourself, you'd admit that that proverbial vacuum has already been filled. In case the obvious is lost on you, when we invaded Iraq, we created that vacuum.
Who said we wanted to pull out and let "mother nature take care of it?" Once again, that's the right wing propaganda talking. We want a strategic, intelligent, adult plan based on facts rather than on fantasy that got
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