The government's approach to terrorism is creating an atmosphere of suspicion and unease, the head of the Muslim Council of Britain has said. Muhammad Abdul Bari told the Daily Telegraph the amount of debate relating to Muslims was disproportionate.
He cited Nazi Germany in the 1930s as an example of how people's minds could be poisoned against a community.
while there is no justification for suicide bombing, suicide bombers were victims as well as aggressors.
Somehow that statement causes "unease" in me. He my as well say that you had better be the kind of society we expect you to be or we'll send out our exploding Arabs.
-- The only time we see the middle of the road is as we run from side to side. R.O.Clark
Posts: 3959 | Location: Santa Fe | Registered: 11 June 2003
I used to frame houses. On day a buddy of mine and I were nailing a wall together. I used to swing a 28 oz. waffle headed framing hammer. Biggest, baddest hammer for framing. I wasn't paying much attention as we talked and I hit myself in the shin as hard as I could with the hammer. I still remember how painful it was.
Here's my question. Was I the victim of a hammer attack?
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
Somehow that statement causes "unease" in me. He my as well say that you had better be the kind of society we expect you to be or we'll send out our exploding Arabs.
no he's saying that we had better allow HIM to have the society he want's or hell send out exploding arabs
Keep with the program
Posts: 62 | Location: A Buggy | Registered: 06 November 2007
This is the problem with taking fragments of a passage:
And he said that while there was no justification for suicide bombing, suicide bombers were victims as well as aggressors.
"Children come to hate when they don't get enough care and love. They are probably bullied, it makes a young person angry and vulnerable... the people who become suicide bombers are really vulnerable."
I am sorry I don't have a problem with that. I say this knowing well I have no sympathy for someone who can kill innocent people and use the name of God to justify it. I understand the Mantra of we have to kill them before they kill us. That has been around for thousands of years and we have been killing each other for thousands of years. I know a Rabbi who is an Israeli and even she acknowledges this truth and she was in the Israeli army and is no pacifist.
"a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. But the tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason."
Posts: 1944 | Location: Beautiful New Paltz, NY | Registered: 04 July 2006
They are probably bullied, it makes a young person angry and vulnerable...
Sorry James, that is a bogus argument. I was bullied horrendously in school and I never wanted suicide, or even to murder by oppressors. The Jewish people through the centuries have been oppressed and pogromed and still have never mounted a murderous attack on any nation. The Irish and the Negroes and other races were the victims of institutionalized abuse and violence in American history, and none of them resorted to the religious aspiration of exploding in a crowded pizza parlor. No, instead they worked hard, got educated and joined modern society.
If you can explain your reasoning further, maybe I'll get it.
-- The only time we see the middle of the road is as we run from side to side. R.O.Clark
Posts: 3959 | Location: Santa Fe | Registered: 11 June 2003
I say this knowing well I have no sympathy for someone who can kill innocent people and use the name of God to justify it.
I will make no apologies for saying that and no one should be bullied ask the folks at Columbine about it Not that the response of those alienated kids was appropriate
As far as the Irish, the IRA was a terrorist organization and they were gangsters and hitman in the USA There were riots in WATTS and Newark and Detroit with malitov cocktails and snipers and the bombing of the King David Hotel was either a terrorist attack or strike for freedom depending upon you talk to.
"a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. But the tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason."
Posts: 1944 | Location: Beautiful New Paltz, NY | Registered: 04 July 2006
Sorry, I just can't see grouping them all into the same category. The little old lady with the hammer was violent all right. But all she did was smash a computer keyboard. Would you judge her to be equal to the Columbine suicide murderers?
-- The only time we see the middle of the road is as we run from side to side. R.O.Clark
Posts: 3959 | Location: Santa Fe | Registered: 11 June 2003
Of course not! The problem is when you justify violence in certain circumstances, who get the final word? When you say torture is ok in certain situations who gets to define those situations and what happens when what you are doing falls into those situations? The Muslim community is going to have to come to terms with this as are we. Actually, talking to my friends in the UK, there are many British Muslims who want no part of this and many have cooperated with the police in exposing potential cells.
"a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom. But the tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason."
Posts: 1944 | Location: Beautiful New Paltz, NY | Registered: 04 July 2006
Gnarlodious, all that statement says is that hate begets hate. Many of the school shooters are victims of bullying. Many of the school shooters figure that they have no hope and no future. The difference between the average school shooter and the average suicide bomber is that the latter group has people talking them into it.
James Loney was a captive along with fellow Canadian Harmeet Singh Sooden, Brit Norman Kember and American Tom Fox. One of the captors was thinking about becoming a suicide bomber but changed his mind:
quote:
The next day, the captor we called “Junior” declared he was going on a suicide mission. He mimed driving a car full of explosives up to an American Humvee, and BOOM! Pointing first to himself and then skyward, eyes rolling piously, he said, “Jenna [heaven]. With my mother, my father, my fiancé.” They, along with his best friend and one of his sisters, were killed when the U.S. bombed his house in Fallujah. Then, pointing to the earth and spitting, he said, “America.”
I once asked him what he would be doing if the U.S. hadn’t invaded his country. “Helping my father in the market,” he shrugged. Junior was 25 years old with a grade six education. ...
As I kneaded his forearm, he released a torrent of woes: no mother, no father, no house, no marriage, no children, no job, no money to fix the clutch on his car. ...
“What do they say in Canada about suicide? Is it okay or not?” Junior asked me. “It is haram [forbidden],” I answered, “by Esau [Jesus].”
You have all heard the story about Dante, a part Huskey, part Australian shepherd who prevented a mass shooting in Toronto? In a different article, the owner said of Dante: "He's extremely empathetic. If one of my children cries he gets upset and so it doesn't surprise me he would sense first of all a dog lover, but a dog lover that's upset."
quote:
The 43-year-old man, who turned himself in to police on Wednesday afternoon, said he'd loaded his car with guns and ammunition in New Brunswick before setting out with plans of randomly shooting people in Toronto.
On arriving in east-end Toronto, the man reportedly went into a nearby park to load his weapons.
There, he told police, a playful dog approached him. That encounter apparently changed his mind.
He got back in his car and began looking for police. At about 5 p.m., he spotted a cruiser and turned himself in to the surprised officer, Const. Fraser Douglas.
There is also this reader response to a segment about the Brampton school shooting of 1975 which aired shortly after Virginia Tech:
quote:
I didn't know about the school in Brampton in '75, as I was only 7 then, I would have been a statistic in the early eighties if my dad hadn't kept his guns locked away. Shool is a tough place for kids but as outcasts it is even worse. I remember wanting to kill my tormenters, and the teachers who egged them on. Schools have gotten better on dealing with bullies but we still have a long way to go obviously. My prayers are with the families of those lost to violence, and I pray every day that we find a solution to stop the violence. Posted by: Tricia http://www.cbc.ca/sunday/2007/04/042207_2.html
While hate begets hate, love begets hope and mercy.
Posts: 771 | Location: Winnipeg | Registered: 06 September 2001
Here's my question. Was I the victim of a hammer attack?
You were a victim of your own carelessness. However, if I hit you with that hammer and acted like it was no big deal, I think that you would be a bit upset with me.
Posts: 771 | Location: Winnipeg | Registered: 06 September 2001
Individuals are legally responsible for their views. Messages or parts of messages may be quoted or read on the radio, or reprinted in Thom's books and other materials.
Discussion Community 
