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    Discussion Community    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Thom's Radio Program  Hop To Forums  World Affairs & Iraq    Israel raises nuclear stakes with Iran .. the propaganda push.

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Posted
Not sure how this compares to the propaganda push in the states ... If you have time, read the article and then the following replys.
Israel raises nuclear stakes with Iran

By Anne Penketh in Tel Aviv

Published: 25 January 2007

The Israeli Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, dramatically raised the stakes in the international showdown with Iran last night, with a clear warning that his country was prepared to use military force to prevent Tehran from obtaining a nuclear weapon.

"The Jewish people, with the scars of the Holocaust fresh on its body, cannot afford to allow itself to face threats of annihilation once again," Mr Olmert said in a speech to a high-level security conference in Herzliya. "No nation has the right even to consider its position. It is the obligation of every country to act against this will all its might." "We can stand up against nuclear threats and even prevent them," he said.

Israeli military officials warned this week that Israel – acting alone or in coordination with the US – could launch preemptive military strikes against Iran before the end of this year.

Israel describes Iran’s nuclear programme as an “existential threat” to the Jewish state which should be stopped before Iranian scientists manage to produce a nuclear bomb. There is particular concern because of statements by the Iranian president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, threatening to wipe Israel from the map. But Israeli and western experts say that even without the firebrand Mr Ahmadinejad, who is currently in political difficulties, Iran’s supreme leader Ali Khamenei, has made it clear that the Iranians will not back down from their confrontation with the West over Tehran’s nuclear ambitions.

The Israeli officials say that action should be taken to stop Iran before it reaches the “point of no return” in progressing towards the possible production of a nuclear bomb. They are referring to the moment when Iran, which announced last year that it is capable of enriching uranium to the 5% necessary for nuclear energy, is able to overcome technical problems with centrifuges used in the process so that they can run on a sustainable basis. Once that happens, Iran would be theoretically capable of enriching uranium to the 90% required for a nuclear weapon, depending on the number of centrifuges. Iran continues to insist, however, that its intentions are peaceful.

Nuclear researcher Gary Samore, director of studies at the US council on Foreign Relations, told the Herzliya conference that Iran was still years away from being able to manufacture a bomb.

Israel – the only Middle East power with nuclear weapons - has long made it clear that it will not allow Iran to have a nuclear bomb. Reports that Iran is close to the “point of no return” towards building a bomb have caused widespread alarm throughout the Middle East, with Egypt, Saudi Arabia and most recently, Jordan, warning that they could embark on “peaceful” nuclear programmes, triggering fears of a nuclear arms race in the tinderbox region. Israeli officials – who admit there is an internal debate on how to respond to what could be a bluff – expect a triumphant announcement next month or in March that Iran has mastered the centrifuge technology, confirming Tehran as the regional superpower.

In a further significant development, thanks to Iran’s deep engagement in Iraq, there is now an open rift between the majority Sunni branch of Islam and and the Shiites. Israelis now boast that the “moderate” Arab Sunni states, who feel threatened by the newly empowered Iran and its regional reach through its Shia allies, are cooperating with Israel out of a new-found confluence of interests.

A senior British military source said yesterday that the Israelis were serious about the use of military force to stop Iran, and were now engaged in preparing public opinion for such a prospect. “They’re watering the turf. The Iranians are not under enough pressure,” the source said.

One theory is that Israel, which is disappointed at the impact of limited UN economic sanctions and the slow process through the United Nations which is out of step with the accelerated pace of Iran’s nuclear research, aims to heighten pressure on Iran to halt enrichment in line with UN demands, by invoking the military threat. However, the British source said, “the trouble with talking about military action is that you actually end up bombing.”

Israeli officials who spoke to the Independent this week refused to go into details about the possible catastrophic regional fallout from military strikes, although one source said that if they were restricted to Iran’s Natanz facility where its centrifuges are known to be enriching uranium, “there would be headlines in the papers for two days.”

But any military campaign would provoke retaliation by Iran which is expected to reactivate its Hezbollah allies on the border with Israel, who according to officials here have been rearming with missiles since the end of the summer campaign. The 140,000 American troops inside Iraq could be significant targets of the Iranians. Syria could also be drawn into a wider war, although the Israelis believe that both Syria and Russia would remain on the sidelines.

Other questions concern the Bush administration’s appetite for another war, already bogged down in Iraq and facing calls from the Democrat-led Congress for a phased withdrawal.

And the strength of the Israeli armed forces would be further tested after their flawed campaign against Hezbollah in Lebanon. “The IDF are not as good as they think they are,” said the British source. “It’s an army of conscripts, commanded by reserve officers. Do you want to send conscripts into a war for the national interest?”

Some analysts say that in any case, miitary strikes would be counter-productive as they would only delay, and not stop, Iran's nuclear programme.


***

Heres the reply from David Bracewell -

Dear Ms Penketh,

You present the following as fact -

"In a further significant development, thanks to Iran’s deep engagement in Iraq, there is now an open rift between the majority Sunni branch of Islam and and the Shiites."

It's disconnected from reality, isn't it? Just looking at it: presenting the rift as a sole result of "Iran’s deep engagement in Iraq". It's delusional. Those big fleshy blokes with kneepads, buckets on their heads and chunky breastplates? The ones who bash down doors, shoot into cars indiscriminately and support Shiite death squads dressed up as police? They're +Americans+, not Iranians. And the insurgency? Sunni not Shiite. That huge attack on the Lebanese people with the single object of dividing Shiite from Sunni and Christian? Yup. That was Israeli.

You continue: "One theory is that Israel, which is disappointed at the impact of limited UN economic sanctions and the slow process through the United Nations which is out of step with the accelerated pace of Iran’s nuclear research..."

Put in terms that clarify the role of the UN - terms you could have used to impart the key reason as to the 'slow process' : the UN is not curtailing fast enough the legal activity of a member state. You wouldn't know that Iran's activity was legal or that the UN's actions were in contravention of Iran's international rights under the NPT from your article.

Meanwhile, what with the nuclear weapons of Israel and all, to which you make passing reference, the question is begged: "why aren't you exploring the main dynamic in this situation"?

Why is Iran's peaceful nuclear program (no evidence to the contrary emerging ) such an important focus when a real live nuclear proliferator like Israel is using its military and nuclear advantage to attempt to reduce the Arabs and Iranians to abject silence and inaction in the face of its expansionist, racist policies? This is after all not an article on Iran, but on Israel's reaction to Iran. And so it is also natural to ask, what sort of credibility does the one reacting have?

You say "Iran continues to insist, however, that its intentions are peaceful." Instead of a recognition that there is no evidence to the contrary you continue as if this Iranian statement is just your obligatory balancing act -

"Nuclear researcher Gary Samore, director of studies at the US council on Foreign Relations, told the Herzliya conference that Iran was still years away from being able to manufacture a bomb." And so in that inconvincing phrase, Iran must once again 'insist', as if there is another credible side to the story to which it is failing to answer adequately.

Of course we have the "wiped of the map" trope presented once again as fact. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad never said this. Please read Michigan Professor Juan Cole's comments - which remain unrefuted . Once again, Israeli information ministry propaganda finds its way into your article as fact.

Yes Israel has a point of view, but not pointing out the laughably delusory nature of it, all of it, in relation to the body of readily available evidence is pretty poor.

It's hard to believe, for instance, that you would treat a like state - say Serbia in the mid-1990s - with such forbearance, entertaining the gross disinformation in its official position and indeed adopting some of that disinformation as the factual underpinning to your article.

Kind regards

David Bracewell

***

Theres also this -

This is nothing less than typical propaganda.

A fleeting mention is given to the Iranian point of view (tucked away at the end of the 5th paragraph) “Iran continues to insist, however, that its intentions are peaceful.”

This is then followed by a quote by the US council on Foreign Relations (of which Madeline Albright & Colin Powell are directors and includes such great luminaries as Dick Cheney , Condoleezza Rice , Paul Wolfowitz , Robert M. Gates, John D. Negroponte & Henry Kissinger as council members).

Quoting Olmert is like quoting Hitler – he is a rabid facist. Olmert deserves to be critised for his use of the Holocaust to promote the genocide of others.

The article can be summarised to the following:

Israeli military officials warned THEY WANT TO BOMB IRAN
Israel describes Iran’s nuclear programme as …. A REASON TO BOMB IRAN
The Israeli officials say THEY WANT TO BOMB IRAN
…….
Israeli officials expect THEY WANT TO BOMB IRAN
Israelis now boast…..THEY WANT TO BOMB IRAN
A senior British military source said …. THEY WANT TO BOMB IRAN
……Israel, which is disappointed at the impact of limited UN economic sanctions…… WANT TO BOMB IRAN
…..the British source said………THEY WANT TO BOMB IRAN
Israeli officials……… WANT TO BOMB IRAN
…..said the British source…… THEY WANT TO BOMB IRAN
Some analysts (which ones I'd like to know?)…………THEY WANT TO BOMB IRAN

So lots and lots of nice officialdom quotes from such great sources that brought you Operation Iraqi Liberation (OIL)

Oh how they bang the drums of war for their masters………………
 
Posts: 6749 | Location: here again | Registered: 12 November 2004Report This Post
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Shit, i thought this was as spoof. Tell me you're not getting these adverts.

AFPC LAUNCHES AD CAMPAIGN ON IRAN

January 23, 2007

Today, the American Foreign Policy Council (AFPC) begins a week-long advertising campaign aimed at educating the American public about the growing threat posed by a nuclear Iran. The ad campaign consists of two 30-second spots that began running Tuesday on CNN, MSNBC, Headline News and the Fox News Channel in Washington, DC, Maryland and northern Virginia.


ADVERTISEMENT 1:

The nuclear clock is ticking… and time is running out.

Iran is the world's largest state sponsor of terrorism[1] - supporting attacks that have killed hundreds of Americans.[2]

An Iranian group boasts 25,000 members who are ready to become suicide bombers in the US and Europe.[3]

Now, in violation of the UN, Iran is developing a dangerous nuclear capability[4] and has threatened to share it with others.[5]

Stand up for peace. Call the White House and tell them to enforce sanctions against Iran today.

SOURCES:
[1] Pam O'Toole, "Rice: Iran is Terrorism 'Banker'," BBC News, February 17, 2006, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4722498.stm.
[2] “Iran Responsible for 1983 Marine Barracks Bombing, Judge Rules,” CNN.com, May 30, 2003, http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/05/30/iran.barracks.bombing/.
[3] Ahmad Rafat, "Europe a Target of Iranian Suicide Bombers," Student Movement Coordination Committee for Democracy in Iran, May 26, 2006, http://daneshjoo.org/publishers/currentnews/article_6031.shtml.
[4] "Iran 'Ignores Nuclear Deadline,'" BBC News, August 31, 2006, http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/5303086.stm.
[5] "Iran Prez: I'll Share My Nuclear Technology," CBS News, December 16, 2006, http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/16/world/main2274308.shtml.



ADVERTISEMENT 2:

Iran’s President denies the Holocaust[1], says he wants to wipe Israel off the map[2] and has supported attacks that killed hundreds of Americans.[3]

Iran sent thousands of children marching to their deaths to clear minefields, armed only with plastic keys to unlock the gates of heaven.[4]

Now, in violation of the United Nations, Iran is trying to go nuclear[5] and has threatened to share the technology with others.[6]

Stand up for peace. Call the White House and tell them to enforce sanctions against Iran today.

SOURCES:
[1] Karl Vick, "Iran's President Calls Holocaust 'Myth' in Latest Assault on Jews," Washington Post, December 15, 2005; "Ahmadinejad: Courting controversy," Al-Jazeera (Doha), December 14, 2005, http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/39AF3EA0-C8E9-45...9D3-438045D4431F.htm.
[2] David Pryce-Jones, "A Particular Madness - Understanding Iran's Ahmadinejad," National Review, May 8, 2006.
[3] “Iran Responsible for 1983 Marine Barracks Bombing, Judge Rules,” CNN.com, May 30, 2003, http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/05/30/iran.barracks.bombing/.
[4] Matthias Kuntzel, "Ahmadinejad's Demons," The New Republic, April 24, 2006, http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20060424&s=kuntzel042406.
[5] "Iran 'Ignores Nuclear Deadline,'" BBC News, August 31, 2006, http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/5303086.stm.
[6] "Iran Prez: I'll Share My Nuclear Technology," CBS News, December 16, 2006, http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/16/world/main2274308.shtml.


For additional information on AFPC's work on Iran -- including access to the 2006 AFPC-McCormick Tribune Foundation report "Forging an Iran Strategy" and AFPC Vice President for Policy Ilan Berman's Congressional testimonies -- click here to visit the website of the Iran Freedom Initiative.
 
Posts: 6749 | Location: here again | Registered: 12 November 2004Report This Post
Picture of Slabmaster
Posted Hide Post
My prediction.

Iran will be attacked by 2008.

Bush is moving carriers into the area as we type.
Iran is courting N. Korea for support and supplying and assisting the terrorists in Iraq.
Israel will move when the time is right. It won't be long.

It will make the current hostilities in the middle east look like a picnic.

This will get much worse before it gets better.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."

Theodore Roosevelt, 1913

 
Posts: 2404 | Location: Redmond WA | Registered: 04 September 2006Report This Post
Posted Hide Post
Have you seen those adverts, Slabmaster, is it a joke or for real?
 
Posts: 6749 | Location: here again | Registered: 12 November 2004Report This Post
Picture of Loganthor
Posted Hide Post
Slab do you have a pilots license?

My neocon secret decoder ring gives me access to Nukes. I just need some help getting them to Iran.


sleep


**** Disclaimer: The information in this weblog is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. This weblog does not represent the thoughts, intentions, plans or strategies of my owner. It is solely my own personal opinion. Inappropriate comments will be deleted at the authors discretion.***

"I stand or fall on my own words."
 
Posts: 7253 | Location: PORTLAND | Registered: 07 November 2005Report This Post
Posted Hide Post
have you seen the adverts, Loganthor?
 
Posts: 6749 | Location: here again | Registered: 12 November 2004Report This Post
Picture of Loganthor
Posted Hide Post
quote:
have you seen the adverts, Loganthor?


You mean beyond your post. NO.

Have you heard that Iran wants to wipe Israel of the face of trhe earth?


**** Disclaimer: The information in this weblog is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. This weblog does not represent the thoughts, intentions, plans or strategies of my owner. It is solely my own personal opinion. Inappropriate comments will be deleted at the authors discretion.***

"I stand or fall on my own words."
 
Posts: 7253 | Location: PORTLAND | Registered: 07 November 2005Report This Post
Picture of Slabmaster
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sunrise part two:
Have you seen those adverts, Slabmaster, is it a joke or for real?


I have not seen the adverts.

But I do believe what we are seeing now is the beginning of much worse.
With the Iranian presidents blustering, Israels defensivness, Bushes and the UK's commitments to stay involved, N.Korea aiding, Syria in the wings ready to aid anyone anti-Israel, Lebanons growing internal hostilities, etc...

It's going to get ugly revolving around Iran and Israel. I think it will change the look of the middle east.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."

Theodore Roosevelt, 1913

 
Posts: 2404 | Location: Redmond WA | Registered: 04 September 2006Report This Post
Picture of Slabmaster
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Loganthor:
Slab do you have a pilots license?

My neocon secret decoder ring gives me access to Nukes. I just need some help getting them to Iran.


sleep


No, but I've flown a plane before.
It's the landing part that I worry about.

Actually, I heard an ad on the radio for commercial helicopter pilot school and thought it would be fun.
I don't want to fly for a living, but I've always thought a helicopter would be fun.

A Hughes 500 with GE mini-guns would be a great go to work rig!


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."

Theodore Roosevelt, 1913

 
Posts: 2404 | Location: Redmond WA | Registered: 04 September 2006Report This Post
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Loganthor:

quote:
have you seen the adverts, Loganthor?


You mean beyond your post. NO.

Have you heard that Iran wants to wipe Israel of the face of trhe earth?


Is it for real though, would you expect to see them?

I have read and heard claims about Iran’s President saying he wants to wipe Israel off the map, but also that it wasnt true and he didnt say it after all. Didnt ABC or some other tv company air an interview with the iranian president where the interviewer claimed he said it although he didnt?

Hence the curiosity about them advert thingies.
 
Posts: 6749 | Location: here again | Registered: 12 November 2004Report This Post
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Slabmaster:

quote:
Originally posted by sunrise part two:
Have you seen those adverts, Slabmaster, is it a joke or for real?


I have not seen the adverts.

But I do believe what we are seeing now is the beginning of much worse.
With the Iranian presidents blustering, Israels defensivness, Bushes and the UK's commitments to stay involved, N.Korea aiding, Syria in the wings ready to aid anyone anti-Israel, Lebanons growing internal hostilities, etc...

It's going to get ugly revolving around Iran and Israel. I think it will change the look of the middle east.


Perhaps its just a joke then, as i first thought.

Slabmaster, did you read all the posts in this thread, the article at the begining in the first post and the summary at the end?
 
Posts: 6749 | Location: here again | Registered: 12 November 2004Report This Post
Posted Hide Post
Did you read the first post, Loganthor? Just the replies (contained in the first post) would be best if you didnt read it all.
 
Posts: 6749 | Location: here again | Registered: 12 November 2004Report This Post
Picture of Loganthor
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Is it for real though, would you expect to seem them?


In this day and age, propbably will show up on Youtube first. What exactly did you have a problem with on the Ads?

quote:
I have read and heard claims about Iran’s President saying he wants to wipe Israel off the map, but also that it wasnt true and he didnt say it after all. Didnt ABC or some other tv company air an interview with the iranian president where the interviewer claimed he said it although he didnt?

I think it has been said multiple time now. Least we not forget the 25 year war they have been funding and supporting against Israel...... Shebba Farms Sorry???

Slab right, it will get worst before it gets better.... Or, they are all practicing their bluffing skills for the World Poker Tour.


**** Disclaimer: The information in this weblog is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. This weblog does not represent the thoughts, intentions, plans or strategies of my owner. It is solely my own personal opinion. Inappropriate comments will be deleted at the authors discretion.***

"I stand or fall on my own words."
 
Posts: 7253 | Location: PORTLAND | Registered: 07 November 2005Report This Post
Picture of Loganthor
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Did you read the first post, Loganthor? Just the replies (contained in the first post) would be best if you didnt read it all


Good!!! I got a couple lines into it and thought to myself, Crap, here we go again... Poor old Iranians being picked on by the nasty Israelis

Although that last section was funny...


**** Disclaimer: The information in this weblog is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. This weblog does not represent the thoughts, intentions, plans or strategies of my owner. It is solely my own personal opinion. Inappropriate comments will be deleted at the authors discretion.***

"I stand or fall on my own words."
 
Posts: 7253 | Location: PORTLAND | Registered: 07 November 2005Report This Post
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Loganthor:
quote:
Is it for real though, would you expect to seem them?


In this day and age, propbably will show up on Youtube first. What exactly did you have a problem with on the Ads?

quote:
I have read and heard claims about Iran’s President saying he wants to wipe Israel off the map, but also that it wasnt true and he didnt say it after all. Didnt ABC or some other tv company air an interview with the iranian president where the interviewer claimed he said it although he didnt?

I think it has been said multiple time now. Least we not forget the 25 year war they have been funding and supporting against Israel...... Shebba Farms Sorry???

Slab right, it will get worst before it gets better.... Or, they are all practicing their bluffing skills for the World Poker Tour.


I checked YouTube Smiler i couldnt find anything.

I havnt seen the ads or been convinced that they are for real, hence the enquiry, so no problem at all.

You and slabmaster are perhaps what might be described as red blooded americans, and would be at the forefront and frontline in this war on terror thing if the situation were a little different for you both, eh. I just wanted to know what you thought of the adverts, to get an american perspective.

of course, there is the issue of the "wipe off the map" thing not being true.

I dont know what you were thinking of when you said "multiple time now" or what a percieved 25 year war has to do with it, i guess thats just your usual routine though.
 
Posts: 6749 | Location: here again | Registered: 12 November 2004Report This Post
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Loganthor:

quote:
Did you read the first post, Loganthor? Just the replies (contained in the first post) would be best if you didnt read it all


Good!!! I got a couple lines into it and thought to myself, Crap, here we go again... Poor old Iranians being picked on by the nasty Israelis

Although that last section was funny...


It was a pretty good summary, the last section. Smiler

The letter sent to Anne Penketh in Tel Aviv was equally as good, though more serious.
 
Posts: 6749 | Location: here again | Registered: 12 November 2004Report This Post
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Slabmaster:
quote:
Originally posted by Strawberry:
Slab just doesn't like links, does he? ha ha
Well, I was hoping for a link to the Iranian pres' own comments as opposed to yet another 3rd party analysis.

Even so, like I've said, I have no doubt that man wants Israel gone-- .

One disadvantage I have is not being on this forum 24/7 to respond to peoples demands. But, if its links you want...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/27/ahmadinejad.reaction/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...AR2005120801788.html
(I liked this one and threw it in for good measure.)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4378948.stm

http://www.subzeroblue.com/archives/2005/10/iranian_presidents_c.html

http://newsfromrussia.com/politics/2005/10/27/66360.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad

http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav110105.shtml

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/12/6f3acbdf-d...9d-278c700ae2ea.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/09/60minutes/main1879867.shtml
(This one has very direct language of his statements to Mike Wallace)

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/july-dec05/iran_11-03.html

http://newsfromrussia.com/world/2005/12/15/69903.html

http://www.genocidewatch.org/AntiSemitismIranianPreside...sraelOffMapNov05.htm

http://www.freemuslims.org/news/article.php?article=1148


And....for desert.....

IT'S... Aljazeera!!

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/15E6BF77-6F91-46...4B5-A3CE0E9957EA.htm


Funny how all of these news sources from around the globe heard and understand what he said, but there are always those few misguided souls who will live in denial and appoligize for the terrorists.

This guy is as bad as they get.
 
Posts: 7939 | Location: Santa Barbara | Registered: 19 July 2005Report This Post
Picture of Loganthor
Posted Hide Post
quote:
I checked YouTube i couldnt find anything.


Well then... for the momment, your the only one pushing it. Wink

quote:
I havnt seen the ads or been convinced that they are for real, hence the enquiry, so no problem at all.

Haven't seen anything here, do not watch alot of news, conflicts with my online Battlefield 2142 Game.

quote:
You and slabmaster are perhaps what might be described as red blooded americans, and would be at the forefront and frontline in this war on terror thing if the situation were a little different for you both, eh. I just wanted to know what you thought of the adverts, to get an american perspective.

Cant speak for Slab, I am fairly indifferent to it. seems fairly well footnoted and organized to convey a simple message. Iran Bad. I would tend to agree. That about sums it up.

quote:
of course, there is the issue of the "wipe off the map" thing not being true.

Well.... We know the truth... Wink

quote:
I dont know what you were thinking of when you said "multiple time now" or what a percieved 25 year war has to do with it, i guess thats just your usual routine though.

The line has been said, resaid and studied endlessly..
25 years of hostility toward Israel has alot to do with it, In context. But that is YOUR usual routine Razzer


**** Disclaimer: The information in this weblog is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. This weblog does not represent the thoughts, intentions, plans or strategies of my owner. It is solely my own personal opinion. Inappropriate comments will be deleted at the authors discretion.***

"I stand or fall on my own words."
 
Posts: 7253 | Location: PORTLAND | Registered: 07 November 2005Report This Post
Picture of Slabmaster
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sunrise part two:

You and slabmaster are perhaps what might be described as red blooded americans, and would be at the forefront and frontline in this war on terror thing if the situation were a little different for you both, eh. I just wanted to know what you thought of the adverts, to get an american perspective.



War on terror thing?


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."

Theodore Roosevelt, 1913

 
Posts: 2404 | Location: Redmond WA | Registered: 04 September 2006Report This Post
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Loganthor:

...


quote:

You and slabmaster are perhaps what might be described as red blooded americans, and would be at the forefront and frontline in this war on terror thing if the situation were a little different for you both, eh. I just wanted to know what you thought of the adverts, to get an american perspective.



Cant speak for Slab, I am fairly indifferent to it. seems fairly well footnoted and organized to convey a simple message. Iran Bad. I would tend to agree. That about sums it up.


Seems fairly well footnoted with media sources, which are notoriously unreliable, biased and wrong. That's how so many believed falsehoods about the war on Iraq, relying on the media.

Earlier on you said you "got a couple lines into it [the article in the first post] and thought to myself, Crap, here we go again... Poor old Iranians being picked on by the nasty Israelis". Yet you were reading an article from Anne Penketh in Tel Aviv that can be summed up as not as "Poor old Iranians being picked on by the nasty Israelis", but poor old nuclear armed Jews with one of the worlds most powerful armies being supported by the worlds sole superpower being picked on by nasty (but comparitively defenceless) Iran, even throwing in the almost obligatory mention of the European holocaust of WWII.

Somehow you managed to express quite the reverse.



quote:

quote:
I dont know what you were thinking of when you said "multiple time now" or what a percieved 25 year war has to do with it, i guess thats just your usual routine though.

The line has been said, resaid and studied endlessly..
25 years of hostility toward Israel has alot to do with it, In context. But that is YOUR usual routine Razzer


What line? That line that wasnt said by the Iranian president?

"25 years of hostility towards Israel" has a lot to do with what?

In that 25 years of percieved hostility, what has Iran done to Israel?

Context? 25 years ago would be 1982, three years after the Iranian revolution of 1979, which overthrew the US installed brutal and murderous monarchy, which inturn had overthrown the democratically-elected regime in Iran (organised by the CIA and kermit roosevelt et al), which inturn was over control of OIL - to put it into the kind of context of hostility you ignore.

Watch Robert Newman History of oil for more context.
 
Posts: 6749 | Location: here again | Registered: 12 November 2004Report This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Ronald Rutherford:
quote:
Originally posted by Slabmaster:
quote:
Originally posted by Strawberry:
Slab just doesn't like links, does he? ha ha
Well, I was hoping for a link to the Iranian pres' own comments as opposed to yet another 3rd party analysis.

Even so, like I've said, I have no doubt that man wants Israel gone-- .

One disadvantage I have is not being on this forum 24/7 to respond to peoples demands. But, if its links you want...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/27/ahmadinejad.reaction/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...AR2005120801788.html
(I liked this one and threw it in for good measure.)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4378948.stm

http://www.subzeroblue.com/archives/2005/10/iranian_presidents_c.html

http://newsfromrussia.com/politics/2005/10/27/66360.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad

http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav110105.shtml