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    Discussion Community    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Thom's Radio Program  Hop To Forums  World Affairs & Iraq    Israel, Oil and the West

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Posted
I would like to know how the West's need for oil factored in to the creation of the state of Israel.

In the aftermath of World War II, the revelation of the full horror of the holocaust might have created sympathy in the US for the plight of the Jews, and that might be a simple explanation of why the US supported the creation of the state of Israel. However, from today’s perspective looking back, I can imagine that the US saw an opportunity to create a client state in the Middle East that would always be a beachhead in US efforts to influence the politics of the region, mainly to control the price and availability of oil supplies from the region.

It is my understanding that the United States refused entry of Jewish refugees from Europe during the war. President Roosevelt refused to aid the Jews by bombing railroad tracks that carried Jews to death camps. Furthering US geopolitical interest and rather than helping the Jews seems a more logical explanation of the US role in establishing the state of Israel.

Is there any documented history that supports my idea?
 
Posts: 30 | Location: florida | Registered: 26 May 2006Report This Post
Picture of Loganthor
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quote:
I would like to know how the West's need for oil factored in to the creation of the state of Israel.

On a scale of 1 to 10 The factor is 0.

quote:
Is there any documented history that supports my idea?

NO

see:
Balfour Declaration
British Mandate
League of Nations
Versaillies Peace Conference
Ottomen Empire

Etc...


**** Disclaimer: The information in this weblog is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. This weblog does not represent the thoughts, intentions, plans or strategies of my owner. It is solely my own personal opinion. Inappropriate comments will be deleted at the authors discretion.***

"I stand or fall on my own words."
 
Posts: 7253 | Location: PORTLAND | Registered: 07 November 2005Report This Post
Picture of Gnarlodious
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There isn't any petroleum in Israel. There isn't even any close to Israel. And at that time, petroleum was plentiful. And to top it all off, the United States opposed the creation of Israel.


-- The only time we see the middle of the road is as we run from side to side. R.O.Clark
 
Posts: 3959 | Location: Santa Fe | Registered: 11 June 2003Report This Post
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But Gnarlie, I heard there is a lot of silica there!
 
Posts: 7939 | Location: Santa Barbara | Registered: 19 July 2005Report This Post
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Bromine, Ron. Israel has an abundance of bromine.


-- The only time we see the middle of the road is as we run from side to side. R.O.Clark
 
Posts: 3959 | Location: Santa Fe | Registered: 11 June 2003Report This Post
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Thank you for your response L.

I am not a Middle East scholar, but I am somewhat familiar with all of the references you listed.

What is not included in the list is the role of the United Nations and the United States in 1948.

I don't think any of the references listed will look at the creation of Israel from the perspective of those in power in the United States and the US role in the UN in drafting UN resolution recognizing Israel.

Here is a link to the Truman Presidantial Museum and Library Timeline for the Recognition of the State of Israel and a quote from that page.

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collecti...rge/israelchrono.htm
"1946 September 24: Counsel to the President Clark Clifford writes to the President to warn that the Soviet Union wishes to achieve complete economic, military and political domination in the Middle East. Toward this end, Clifford argues, they will encourage the emigration of Jews from Europe into Palestine and at the same time denounce British and American policies toward Palestine and inflame the Arabs against these policies."

I can see from this quote that the US was concerned about the geopolitical and economic implications of policies toward Palestine, and less about the humanitarian relief for the Jewish refugee from Europe. When one talks about the economics of the Middle East, one is essentially talking about oil.

Benjamin Netanyahu said recently that the Arab world does not hate the West because of Israel, they hate Israel because of the West.

Assuming that is true, and assuming the interest of the West in the Middle East is oil, one might conclude that the Arabs hate Israel because of the West's interest in the oil in the Middle East, and the West's use of Israel as a proxy for the West's oil interests there.

I really don't want to do all of this reading! I was hoping that someone who had already done it could point me to some good sources, but I have already found some on my own.
 
Posts: 30 | Location: florida | Registered: 26 May 2006Report This Post
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Thanks Gnarlie, that explains a lot. No wonder everyone hates the Jews. Hoarders of Bromine.

quote:
Due to its contribution to ozone depletion in Earth's atmosphere, bromine has been evaluated to have an ozone depletion potential of 60 when compared to chlorine.[2]

This could be why many on the left also hates Israel.
 
Posts: 7939 | Location: Santa Barbara | Registered: 19 July 2005Report This Post
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The idea that Israel is somehow a proxy for any sort of industrialists is utter propaganda. Israel was boycotted by Arab oil exporters and most of the world in the 1970s. That boycott was influential in Israel's self sufficiency, and to this day Israel is very conservative about free trade. During that time Venezuela was the major supplier of energy to Israel, and the Arab nations will never forgive Venezuela for betraying OPEC.


-- The only time we see the middle of the road is as we run from side to side. R.O.Clark
 
Posts: 3959 | Location: Santa Fe | Registered: 11 June 2003Report This Post
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quote:
What is not included in the list is the role of the United Nations and the United States in 1948.

1947 UN partion plan 181
1948 Israel Declaration of Independence
1948 + 1 day Israeli / Arab War.

US had very little to with any of it. Except the recognition of Israel as a state.

quote:
I don't think any of the references listed will look at the creation of Israel from the perspective of those in power in the United States and the US role in the UN in drafting UN resolution recognizing Israel.

Probably because the creation of Israel goes much further back then WWII. the aftermath of WWI saw the creation of the British Mandate that was to oversee the creation of an independent jewish state. British failed, turned it over to the UN, UN attempted the comprumise of the UN partion plan 181. Jews accepted the plan Arab rejected and soon after declared war both informally and formally.

quote:
I can see from this quote that the US was concerned about the geopolitical and economic implications of policies toward Palestine, and less about the humanitarian relief for the Jewish refugee from Europe. When one talks about the economics of the Middle East, one is essentially talking about oil.

I do not know what Clark Clifford was referrring to. Nothing I have read concerning Israel had anything to do with Oil nor it's access. Sounds pre cold war. Both the United states and Russia were amoung the first to recognize Israel.

quote:
Benjamin Netanyahu said recently that the Arab world does not hate the West because of Israel, they hate Israel because of the West.

Early history stuff. Arabs feel screwed by the promises made by T. E. Lawrence. ie: Lawrence of Arabia.

quote:
I really don't want to do all of this reading! I was hoping that someone who had already done it could point me to some good sources, but I have already found some on my own.


Start here Israel
There are a thousands of side topics concerning this. Anything interesting, hit the link. the one thing about Israel discussions.... Be ready. Everyone has an opinion.


**** Disclaimer: The information in this weblog is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. This weblog does not represent the thoughts, intentions, plans or strategies of my owner. It is solely my own personal opinion. Inappropriate comments will be deleted at the authors discretion.***

"I stand or fall on my own words."
 
Posts: 7253 | Location: PORTLAND | Registered: 07 November 2005Report This Post
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Upon further reading of the document to which I provided the link above, the US interest in Middle East oil and the partitioning of Palistine is discussed:

"1947 October 10: The Joint Chiefs of Staff argue in a memorandum entitled "The Problem of Palestine" that the partition of Palestine into Jewish and Arab states would enable the Soviet Union to replace the United States and Great Britain in the region and would endanger United States access to Middle East oil."

I'll keep on reading and hoping for useful links about this.

Thanks
 
Posts: 30 | Location: florida | Registered: 26 May 2006Report This Post
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I just missed your post L. Thanks for your response and for the recommendation for prepaing myself for opinions.

In '48, the US was ascendant following victory in Europe, and the cold war had begun. Competition between the US and the USSR for dominance in the Middle East is obvious. Exactly what was done and said in the corridors of power in the US at that time regarding the creation of the state of Israel is what I'm intersted in.
 
Posts: 30 | Location: florida | Registered: 26 May 2006Report This Post
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quote:
quote:
Benjamin Netanyahu said recently that the Arab world does not hate the West because of Israel, they hate Israel because of the West.


Early history stuff. Arabs feel screwed by the promises made by T. E. Lawrence. ie: Lawrence of Arabia.



Actually, Netanyahu was talking about 9/11, terrorism and Osama bin Laden.

http://www.netanyahu.org/statofforisp.html

"That is why they call Israel the Little Satan, to distinguish it clearly from the country that has always been and will always be the Great Satan – The United States of America.

Nothing better illustrates this then Osama bin Laden’s call for Jihad against the United States in 1998. He gave as his primary reason not Israel, not the Palestinians, not the ‘peace process’, but rather the very presence of the United States ‘occupying the Land of Islam in the holiest of places’ – and where is that? – ‘the Arabian peninsula’ says Bin Laden, where America is ‘plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, and humiliating its people’. Israel, by the way, comes a distant third, after ‘the continuing aggression against the Iraqi people’. [Al Quds al Arabi – February 23, 1998]

For the Bin Ladens of the world Israel is merely a sideshow. America is the target."
 
Posts: 30 | Location: florida | Registered: 26 May 2006Report This Post
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quote:
In '48, the US was ascendant following victory in Europe, and the cold war had begun. Competition between the US and the USSR for dominance in the Middle East is obvious. Exactly what was done and said in the corridors of power in the US at that time regarding the creation of the state of Israel is what I'm intersted in.


Most of the reading I do regarding Israel is from Israeli, Arab, and British perspective on the creation of Israel. I am not aware of any "overt" American influence in the creation. As far as OBL, Israel is a popular rallying call for the poor disenfranchised Arab of the Middle East. Most Arab countries are affected by Israel in some fashion.

There had to have been some talks between Israeli leaders and the US. US recognition of Israel was nearly instantaneous meaning they had to have known prior the announcements to move that fast. But both the US and the USSR supported and advocated the UN Partition plan 1947.


**** Disclaimer: The information in this weblog is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. This weblog does not represent the thoughts, intentions, plans or strategies of my owner. It is solely my own personal opinion. Inappropriate comments will be deleted at the authors discretion.***

"I stand or fall on my own words."
 
Posts: 7253 | Location: PORTLAND | Registered: 07 November 2005Report This Post
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