quote:

Originally posted by GG:
The "separation of church and state" does not appear anywhere in the US Constitution. ...

That being the case, then show me in your Bible where either God or Jesus is on record as having endowed Mankind with Inalienable Rights.

quote:

Originally posted by GG:
A nation built without God is a nation built against humanity.

Whose God?

quote:

Originally posted by Clara Listensprechen:

quote:

Originally posted by GG:
The "separation of church and state" does not appear anywhere in the US Constitution. ...

That being the case, then show me in your Bible where either God or Jesus is on record as having endowed Mankind with Inalienable Rights.

"It is in Christ, the image of the invisible God..the likeness of the Creator, that humanity has been created." (Col. 1:15;, 2 Cor. 4:4)

By reason which makes itself heard in conscience and is fulfilled in the love of God and of neighbor, we recognize the voice of God, which urges each one to do what is good and avoid what is evil. Living a moral life bears witness to the dignity of the person.

quote:

Originally posted by Clara Listensprechen:

quote:

Originally posted by GG:
A nation built without God is a nation built against humanity.

Whose God?

He who created the universe out of nothing who always was and always will be.

No thanks GG!

The relentless pursuit of the ACLU

quote:

ACLU Sues City Over Jesus Painting

The American Civil Liberties Union sued the city of Slidell, La., on Tuesday for displaying a painting of Jesus in a courthouse lobby, saying it violates the constitutional separation of church and state.

The ACLU sued after the Slidell City Court refused to voluntarily remove the picture and a message below it that reads: "To Know Peace, Obey These Laws." The ACLU says the portrait — an image of Jesus presenting the New Testament — is a religious icon of the Eastern Orthodox branch of Christianity.

"We did not file this lawsuit because the ACLU is anti-religion ... We did file this lawsuit because we believe this display is clearly in violation of the law," said Vincent Booth, president and acting executive director of the Louisiana ACLU chapter.

The suit was filed on behalf of an unidentified person who complained to the ACLU about the picture. Named as defendants were the city of Slidell, St. Tammany Parish and City Judge James Lamz. St. Tammany Parish is being sued because it partially funds the court, the ACLU said.

On Saturday, Lamz said the picture would stay up unless a federal judge ordered it removed. He said he didn't believe the portrait violates the Constitution, but the issue should be decided in federal court.

Lamz could not comment Tuesday because of the pending litigation, his office said.

Before refusing to take the painting down, Lamz consulted Douglas Laycock, a professor at the University of Michigan Law School who has argued before the Supreme Court.

Laycock said he told Lamz that the legal issues in the case aren't clear-cut and could set legal precedent.

"I don't know how far the two sides will want to push things," Laycock added.

The painting has been on display at the courthouse for nearly a decade and hadn't provoked any complaints prior to the ACLU's recent objections, said Michael Johnson, senior legal counsel for the Alliance Defense Fund, a Christian civil rights group representing the city and parish.

Johnson, whose group is often at odds with the ACLU, said the painting sends an inclusive message of equal justice under the law. He said the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that similar displays in public forums are constitutional.

quote:

Originally posted by GG:

quote:

Originally posted by Clara Listensprechen:

quote:

Originally posted by GG:
The "separation of church and state" does not appear anywhere in the US Constitution. ...

That being the case, then show me in your Bible where either God or Jesus is on record as having endowed Mankind with Inalienable Rights.

"It is in Christ, the image of the invisible God..the likeness of the Creator, that humanity has been created." (Col. 1:15;, 2 Cor. 4:4)

Nope. That's not even on topic--that's a non-sequitur. Try again.

quote:

By reason which makes itself heard in conscience and is fulfilled ...

Your idea that non sequiturs are reasonable answers doesn't bear favorable testimony to your sense of reason.

Sorry, but that's unacceptable. Show me where God or Jesus endows mainkind with Inalienable Rights. I can come up with more scripture on where they both proclaim slavery to be acceptable, tho, and where government by and for the people is actually condemned, while kings are God's favorites. Jesus was even called a shah. That's not very democratic. It's not even republican, either--it's royalist.

Clara

quote:

Show me where God or Jesus endows mainkind with Inalienable Rights.

Because we have hearts of stone, God wrote these inalienable rights upon Two Tablets. Christ increased and not abolished the law of the commandments to further lay down our lives for neighbor and friends as Jesus spoke in the Sermon on the Mount.

The call to adhere to natural law and Beatitude Living is for all peoples of all nations in all generations. They are truths that never changes and are always in season.

quote:

Because we have hearts of stone, God wrote these inalienable rights upon Two Tablets. Christ increased and not abolished the law of the commandments to further lay down our lives for neighbor and friends as Jesus spoke in the Sermon on the Mount.

if you are refering to the 10 commandments, then your arguement holds no merit. the commandments were laws, RESTRICTIONS on what a person can and cannot do. they didnt add rights, they TOOK THEM AWAY!! now, granted, some of them are very applicable. but others are just totally dictatorship principles:

thou shall not worship no god before me- essentially taking away a persons freedom of religious choice. its "honor me" or be smited. freedom of religious persecution is a big freedom that was lost that day. not only that, but it makes "god" sound like a very jealous entity.

thou shall not kill-funny how 'god' made it a law that you shall not kill, yet at the exact same time, supported isreals military conquests against its neighbors. this very same 'god', also flooded the entire earth, and killed every living human on it with the exception of a handful. hard to have us lowely humans follow it when 'god' himself is killing and sniting humans on a daily basis.

thou shall not say my name in vain- a restriction on free speech and the right to say anything you want. not a very nice god if hes wanting to censor people's words.

Politically Correct Dictionary

"In 1690 Benjamin Harris' New England Primer textbook, with a memorization rhyming alphabet, was introduced using Scripture to teach reading and pronunciation. This Primer was reprinted and used for 210 years, until 1900. Also in 1690, Connecticut established a Literacy Law with a fine of $25 (extreme for that time), because it was deemed essential that children be able to read the Scriptures. The framers of America’s Republic were thus taught and they exhibited that upbringing as they confronted and resolved EVERY issue they faced based upon the moral virtue they had derived from their Biblical worldview.

For example, Dr. Benjamin Rush, a signer of the Declaration of Independence and the man considered "the father of modern medicine," proposed his plan for public education in America: "Let the children who are sent to those schools be taught to read and write - - (and) above all, let both sexes be carefully instructed in the principles and obligations of the Christian religion. This is the most essential part of education."

Dr. Rush also wrote a pamphlet titled, "A Defense of the Use of the Bible as a Schoolbook." In a letter to John Armstrong he wrote: "[T]he only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments." Dr. Rush also warned: "Without religion, I believe that learning does real mischief to the morals and principles of mankind," and indicated that if America ever removed the Bible from the classroom, all of our time will be spent fighting crime.

In 1947, the Supreme Court in Everson v. Board of Education erected an unconstitutional “wall of separation between church and state." A decision, which instead of protecting religion from government interference, twisted the intent of a LETTER from Thomas Jefferson and claimed just the opposite. (Note: If we were to apply the 1947 decision to Jefferson himself, then he too blatantly violated this “separation” while president of the D.C. school board, designing the curriculum for the University of Virginia, and as President.)

The politically correct dictionary has been successful in excluding this Biblical moral virtue and silencing Christians from reproving the world of sin. In the same breath that Jesus stated His most quoted verse He continued with what is conveniently ignored: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believes on Him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that Light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the Light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that does truth comes to the Light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. John 3:17-21

Since 1947 schools have continued to expel Christ, and when Light is removed, darkness is the result. We have allowed darkness to replace the Light with the likes of GLSEN, under the guise of the politically correct definitions of “safety and bullying.” The result of this deceptive agenda has turned education from being one that produced upright citizens that learned not only the academics of reading, writing, and arithmetic, but responsibility, discipline, respect, competition, and commitment. What are we witnessing today throughout schools and society? Blame is rampant including both schools administrators afraid of ACLU law suits, and parents, who have abandoned their PRIMARY ROLE of training up a child in the way they should go.



Are parents relinquishing their responsibility over to undisciplined schools that are forced to rely on drugs to control misbehavior and disabilities? Are politicians complying because they would like nothing more then to have drones graduating into eco and sociological obedience, dependent upon government, and willing to do bidding for “the common good?”



Is the politically correct dictionary bearing the fruit of a deception designed to coerce the unsuspecting because many are lazy or too busy to deal with these assaults? Yet the consequence of redefining words like discrimination, tolerance, diversity, bigotry, fear, values, and hate are successfully being used to unjustly coddle a few while discriminating against the silent majority.



Consider the attempts to redefine Mother’s Day and Father’s Day, God’s design of marriage and the natural family, removing Christ from Christmas, and God from schools, government, money, etc. The hope is to eradicate Christianity from the basic fabric of America, while the mainstream media and the entertainment industry are more than happy to oblige.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Matthew 7:15-20, (See Galatians 5 for listings of fruit of the flesh and fruit of the Spirit.)

These accounts confirm what Jesus warned: "If the world hate you, you know that it hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love his own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hates you." (John 15:18-19)

One word that hasn’t been redefined is apathy, where many appear to neglect the Lord’s call to be salt and Light, at the peril of their descendants. (Matthew 5:11-16)" http://www.earstohear.net/Op-Eds/20070405.html

Jesus also said, "He who believes in me will keep my sayings". Evidently, people do not believe in Him. Instead, they follow Paul and their own personal self interests regardless of the harm done to others.

This hasn't been a Christian nation from the beginning. It's been a slave-holding nation that promoted genocide of the native populations. This is "Christian"?

Christianity has been used as an excuse to decimate the societies of Africa and Latin America. The Kingdom of the Aztecs is where? The Kingdom of the Zulu is where? The Confederation of the Huron is where?

There has been a dis-connect between the teachings of Christ and the actions of societies Christianity has found itself in. The U.S. is no exception.

When Christianity has within it leaders advocating the assasination of heads of state, advocating wars of conquest, advocating curtailments of basic liberties, that "religion" has no place in the halls of government.

Retired Monk
"Ideology is a disease"

poly, you most assuredly have disconnected. How truly sad for us all. Whatever happened to you, I sometimes wonder.

GG

What evidence do you have to refute what Polycarp said?

that is just is sue. GG has NO evidence. according to GG, the bible (laugh) is the only evidence and proof she needs to justify her 'positions'. unfortunitely for GG, the bible is not a book of facts, but rather a make believe fairy tale full of people living to 1000, people walking on water, inanimate objects taking on life, and even people returning from the dead.

her book offers no proof or scientific data supporting any of these 'miracles', yet she takes its word as bond and truth. pretty sad and pathetic if you ask me. i surely wouldnt put my trust entirely into something that may or may not be just the figment of someones imagination who lived 3000 years ago.

as far as what polycarp said, like usual, he is right on the money. for a supposed 'christian' nation (which we are not), we are anything BUT christian. advocating and justifing war and slaughter of civilians is NOT christian. yet GG and our commander in chimp both agree that war is good and just and both also claim to be christian.

both GG and bush claim to be christian, yet both advocate and justify the erosion of our civil rights in the name of 'the war on terror'. jesus would NEVER advocate or justify anything for a war.

both GG and bush advocate the killing of other heads of state, like saddam, chavez, and castro. seems to me like anyone is has a differnce in opinion in regards to american foreign policy needs to be silenced. once again, is assassination something that jesus would advocate? i dont think so.

so GG and bush can call themselves christian all they want, but as far as im conserned, neither of them really are. GG appears to be in some kind of cult which claims to be christian and bush only appeals to the radical christians in our midst.

one only needs to look into the past to see how many autrocities and violations were preformed in 'the name of jesus'. we destroyed the native american culture to spread the word of the lord, nations have gone to war over the faith, and even people like GG, who justify the act of violence to promote christianity, only do harm to the faith.

quote:

Christianity and the American Commonwealth By Charles B. Galloway, D.D., LL.D.

Originally published in 1898, "Christianity and the American Commonwealth" is one of the best summaries of the impact of Christianity on America.

Galloway leaves no historical fact unturned in his demonstration that America was founded as a Christian nation. Furthermore, he proves that without the Gospel and the application of all of God’s Word to all of life, civilizations turn despotic and crumble.

In a day when Christian leaders call for the abandonment of politics, Galloway’s book is a breath of fresh air. In many ways this book was prophetic. He saw what would happen if America rejected her Biblical foundations or if Christians retreated from their engagement in society.

Although written more than 100 years ago, Galloway’s arguments are persuasively modern and must be heeded by today’s church. There’s no doubt that the ACLU will be terrified when this book gets back into circulation! Over one hundred images have been added in this newly republished version.

Well, he's right in one instance. The U.S. is turning despotic and crumbling while the regligious Fundies wave the flag and cheer on der Fuerher.

Where is a St. Francis when you need them? Talk about a radical! He told everyone including the church to clean up their act!

"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis

The sole purpose of the American Civil Liberties Union, GG, is to defend the Constitution...even when you disgree with the Constitution. Should your religious freedom ever be attacked by the government because of anti-catholicism, look them up...if they haven't been destroyed.

Retired Monk
"Ideology is a disease"

polyanmesty

quote:

The sole purpose of the American Civil Liberties Union, GG, is to defend the Constitution...even when you disgree with the Constitution.

You are consistent and you CANNOT proVE that the ACLU is defending the Constitution. It's formation is meant to destroy it, poly. A smart man like you should understand that!

quote:

You are consistent and you CANNOT proVE that the ACLU is defending the Constitution. It's formation is meant to destroy it, poly. A smart man like you should understand that!

and a naive and gullible woman like your self surely cant.

quote:

Originally posted by GG:
polyanmesty

quote:

The sole purpose of the American Civil Liberties Union, GG, is to defend the Constitution...even when you disgree with the Constitution.

You are consistent and you CANNOT proVE that the ACLU is defending the Constitution. It's formation is meant to destroy it, poly. A smart man like you should understand that!

Show me an instance where the American Civil Liberties Union went to court to deny a civil right to a client that is guaranteed in the constitution. You can't.

Retird Monk
"Ideology is a disease"

Polyamnesty RE: ACLU

Right now any one can swear that his feelings have been hurt over a cross or a prayer and consequently sue for damages -- with the salivating support of the ACLU. The American people have yet to plumb the depths of this organization's hypocrisy.

The ACLU isn't pro-individual-rights and altruistic. It's anti-Christian and money-grubbing.

*The Pentagon has promised the ACLU to order military units worldwide to stop sponsoring Scout troops because in their traditional Scouts Oath, members promise to do their duty to God and their country.

*McCreary County v. ACLU of Kentucky,

An anonymous citizen sued Barrow County, Georgia, demanding that subversive literature -- the Ten Commandments -- be removed from the courthouse breezeway. The ACLU led the fight, and eventually the county settled the suit for $150,001. The ACLU raked in $150,000 and the citizen got a dollar.

In April 1997 the ACLU sued the City of Chicago because it sponsored troops affiliated with the Boy Scouts of America (BSA). The basis of the suit: BSA excluded participants based on religious belief and sexual orientation. The official plaintiff was a Methodist minister who was offended by what he viewed as the City's endorsement of "a particular religion" because the Scout Oath reads "On My honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country... " By the way, the minister's co-plaintiff in the suit was a homosexual agnostic who was turned down as an adult leader in one of the City's scouting programs.

The U.S. Equal Employment Commission found that religious intolerance has risen in America -- are you ready for this -- by a whopping 82% over the past eleven years -- precisely the period when the ACLU stepped up the pressure and began playing hardball with religious Americans.

And look at what the ACLU has done to our schools:

Because of this hateful organization, little children can no longer sing "Away in a Manger" or even exchange Christmas cards at school. The ACLU has taught America's kids that celebrating the birthday of Jesus is somehow wicked.

American school children can no longer pray, and not just in schools -- in locker rooms, at school athletic contests, and even at graduation. The message the ACLU sends out is clear: Prayer is perverse ---other actions are not.

The ACLU fought to keep young people from reading the Bible on school property, even during free time or after classes. At the same time they have opposed any restrictions on student use of school computers to view pornography. Message: it's the Bible that's obscene.

The ACLU wants to remove the words "In God We Trust" from our coins and "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance. What word would the organization substitute?

The ACLU has made a literal fortune suing religious folks and driving the very name of God from public life.

*How the ACLU stole Christmas -- again

"Along with Americans United for Separation of Church and State and the Southern Poverty Law Center, the ACLU walked away with $540,000 from Alabama taxpayers for their successful attempt to purge the Ten Commandments from the rotunda of the Alabama State Judicial Building.

The Boy Scouts of America had used San Diego's Balboa Park for their annual summer camp since 1915, but the Scout Oath used the "G" word; so the ACLU sued and pocketed $790,000 in fees. Once again hardworking taxpayers footed the bill.

In Kentucky the same hardworking folks coughed up more than $121,000 in lawyers' fees paid to the ACLU for its successful suit to remove a Ten Commandments display outside the State Capitol in Frankfort."

__________
This posting does not even begin to expose the injustices of the ACLU. Do you know its origin, polyamnesty?

ACLU co-founder Roger Baldwin put it: "I seek social ownership of property, the abolition of the properties class, and sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal ."

What is there to misunderstand about that statement?

The ACLU's current strategy: drive God from the field and, at the same time, make money -- lots of money -- to fund the dismantling of America.

RE: ACLU

quote:

Legal fund established for Slidell court fight
It could be liable for ACLU costs if it loses suit over Jesus portrait
Thursday, July 12, 2007 By Christine Harvey

A local pastor is urging residents to contribute to a fund to help Slidell City Court battle a lawsuit filed by the Louisiana ACLU, saying he doesn't want tax dollars footing the bill for the ACLU's costs should the organization prevail.

The Rev. Donald Bryan, who leads First Pentecostal Church on Robert Boulevard, said he already has raised more than $15,000 from local business people, churches, attorneys and contractors, and he wanted to let others know how they can contribute. He said Wednesday that he would refund the donations to the Slidell Justice Fund if the court doesn't need the money.

The ACLU has sued the court, as well as the city of Slidell and St. Tammany Parish, saying a portrait of Jesus Christ that hangs in the court's lobby violates the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution and its mandate calling for the separation of church and state.

The Alliance Defense Fund, a pro-Christian legal organization, has agreed to represent the court for free. But the organization does not cover the opposing side's attorney fees, for which the court could be liable if it loses the legal battle, said Mike Johnson, a Shreveport-based attorney with the Alliance Defense Fund.

"This private fund is a new idea that some concerned community groups have come up with," Johnson said, noting that a group in North Carolina recently raised $100,000 to help a local board fight an ACLU lawsuit about opening meetings with a prayer.

The idea to establish a legal defense fund came about when Judge Jim Lamz received an unsolicited check from a community member and wasn't sure what to do with it, said Ann Barks, the court's spokeswoman. Lamz turned the check over to Bryan, who subsequently opened the account at the bank, she said.

People may bring or mail their donations to any Central Progressive Bank, or send them to First Pentecostal Church. It is unclear whether the donations would be tax-deductible. link

Christine Harvey can be reached at charvey@timespicayune.com or (985) 645-2853.

GG, this isn't a "Christian" nation. Stop trying to force your ideas of even what that is down peoples throats.

The Constitution protects people from that sort of thing. Next thing you know, you'll be demanding religious police to enforce your own particular "brand" of Christianity or other "Christians" will be forcing you to accept theirs.

If you want religious police, and religious law, move to Iran and convert them all to Christianity. They seem to go for that sort of thing over there.

"Retired Monk
"Ideology is a disease"

polyamnesty,

quote:

ACLU co-founder Roger Baldwin put it: "I seek social ownership of property, the abolition of the properties class, and sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal."

Why won't you respond to this?