quote:

So people are allowed to write books promoting their views on religion, and make films, but people who hold the opposite view should not? That's hardly fair.

actually sue, that only partly true. you see, GG and the fundamentals believe you can create religious films or books ONLY if that religion is their own. if it is otherwise, it is considered blasphemous, sinfull,or destructive.

such is the make believe world that the fundamentals live in. and this type of thinking follows their every decision.

in regards to the iraq war, the fundis were behind bush with the invasion. this was based on the "fact" that iraq had wmd. why is it ok for the united states to own wmd and other nations not too, esp since we were the only ones to use a nuclear device on civilians?

or how about in regards to abortion. the fundis condemn this 'barbaric' act, yet readily approve bombs on children in iraq.

the fundis say their religion is the most tolerant and peaceful, yet are quick to deny equal religious representation. a good example is the swearing in on the koran fiasco.

face it, christian fundamentalists in this nation are ignorant fools, blinded by their own morality compass, unable to see they are headed in the wrong direction.

quote:

Originally posted by Sue N:
So people are allowed to write books promoting their views on religion, and make films, but people who hold the opposite view should not? That's hardly fair.

America's documents reflect Judeo-Christian principals, not humanist manifesto principals as ACLU would want you to believe.

fisherman - Since prayer has been taken out of schools we are targeting our teens for a life of misery. There were only 2 stds in the '60s and now we have 80-100. Teens are constantly exposed to sex ed curricula since prayer is out and condoms and birth controls are freely passed out. Birth controls to teen girls increase their risk of liver, cervical and breast cancers. Condoms are naturally flawed yet we lie to teens they are safe.

Our teens are cutting themselves to have any sense of feelings; they are not being prepared for adulthood and our education system is an embarrassing failure in comparison to world studies thanks to the sex ed indoctrinators who purposely have removed classic studies to inject their poison. We are now killing 3000 babies daily and you and Sue rail against what once kept our youth safe - prayer and acknowledgment of God in schools based on our founding father's principals - that we are a Judeo Christian nation -not disciples of Wilhelm Reich who blatantly force programs for radicalizing society by undermining sexual morality.

Changing an individual's political viewpoint from conservatism to liberalism, the character of the individual must first be altered or destroyed through sexual liberation.

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America's documents reflect Judeo-Christian principals, not humanist manifesto principals as ACLU would want you to believe.

GG, read the treaty of tripoli, which states and proves america is NOT a christian nation.

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fisherman - Since prayer has been taken out of schools we are targeting our teens for a life of misery.

so, if we install muslim prayer in schools, since it is a form of prayer, then we can expect everything to be hunky dory.

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There were only 2 stds in the '60s and now we have 80-100.

do you have proof of these numbers? or is it just another fabrication of facts to suit your agenda?

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Teens are constantly exposed to sex ed curricula since prayer is out and condoms and birth controls are freely passed out

and what is the relation between sex education, which is a scientific medical course, and prayer, which relys on fantasy and wishful thinking?

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Birth controls to teen girls increase their risk of liver, cervical and breast cancers.

which science or modern science has not proven. yet another 'creation of facts' which dont exist in the real world, only in the world of religious nutcases

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Condoms are naturally flawed yet we lie to teens they are safe.

naturally flawed in what ways? it even says on the CONDOM PACKAGE that they dont protect against stds and it is not 100% effective as a contraceptive.

and by "we" , you must mean yourself and te other religious fundis who would rather have no protection for the sexually active instead of something which offers some protection against pregnacy.

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Our teens are cutting themselves to have any sense of feelings;

so you now feel the need to stereotype all teenagers as troubled kids who have to mutalate themselves?

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they are not being prepared for adulthood and our education system is an embarrassing failure in comparison to world studies thanks to the sex ed indoctrinators who purposely have removed classic studies to inject their poison

and what classic studies are removed in catholic schools to make room and time for religious studies? how are those children supposed to grow up to become adults when valuable life studies are being removed for bible courses or other catholic nonsense?

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We are now killing 3000 babies daily and you and Sue rail against what once kept our youth safe

by "we" you must mean christians. after all GG, it was YOU that stated most americans are christians, therfore most abortions are also caused by christians. what irony.

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prayer and acknowledgment of God in schools based on our founding father's principals - that we are a Judeo Christian nation

once again, i refer you to the treaty of tripoli, which states america is NOT a christian nation. this treaty btw, was ratified by many of the founding fathers.

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Changing an individual's political viewpoint from conservatism to liberalism, the character of the individual must first be altered or destroyed through sexual liberation.

lol what kind of statement is that?? lol. changing ones viewpoint has nothing to do with 'sexual' liberation. and to prove that, i offer you the cases of our wonderful gop CONSERVATIVE representatives who found such 'sexual liberation' in the form of gay sex. or how about the thousands of catholic priests who prey on young men? do they recieve "sexual liberation" from their actions as well?

face it, most religious conervatives are hypocrites. they contradict themselves at every moments; on one hand clamouring for the end of sexual freedom while preforming the same act on the other hand.

sue, what is your take on all this nonsense?

fisherman

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if we install muslim prayer in schools

Read the Koran. It states the Jewish nation Israel is to blame for "you name it," and furthermore, we are not a Muslim nation. The same book states that YOU WILL convert or your will pay homage, or you will loose your life.

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so you now feel the need to stereotype all teenagers as troubled kids who have to mutalate themselves?

Sexually active youth cannot handle the life style nor are their natures ever meant to adapt to living a hedonistic - use their bodies and other's bodies, in disgraceful manners. Consciences are conflicted and they resort to more harmful attacks against themselves and society. I'm not stating ALL, I'm stating the teens who have fallen for the liberal lies that they have a right to sexual gratification without any moral restraints. It interferes with education they have a right to receive and denies them the preparation for their human vocation.

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therfore most abortions are also caused by christians. what irony.

Which party claims it as sacrament? Which party is joined to the hip with planned baron hood that targets blacks for extermination? Which party supports CAIR and the ACLU? Which party wants God out of the public square?

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i refer you to the treaty of tripoli

I refer you to the 'humanist manifesto' that is ruining our great nation. I'll read the 'tripoli treaty' (is you send a link) if you'll read the humanist manifest and tell me what part of the H.M. document the liberals have not supported in full force desiring demise of our great nation.

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on one hand clamouring for the end of sexual freedom while preforming the same act on the other hand.

Tell me about the liberals' position on "sexual freedom". Why have they worked ferociously to get God out, condoms, birth controls pills and abortion in?

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how about the thousands of catholic priests who prey on young men? do they recieve "sexual liberation" from their actions as well?

Yes, fisherman, some priests have sinned against themselves and all society. It does not change the fact that it is not taught by the Catholic Church. Any sex outside of marriage is a sin, fisherman. You can't cover over the fact that there are many consequences to sinful behavior. The Catholic Church is paying the price for the terrible behavior of these priests, but you are overlooking that all society is suffering from the same deeds and these dreadful actions are STILL being encouraged right in the class rooms beginning at a very young age.

fisherman

quote:

quote:
There were only 2 stds in the '60s and now we have 80-100.

do you have proof of these numbers? or is it just another fabrication of facts to suit your agenda?

See the thread, "EPIDEMIC - Teens sex is killing our kids" written by pediatric doctor Meg Meek. I've posted some of the facts and links. I have the book and find it very difficult to read. We owe our youth a major apology for not loving enough to keep them safe. How did it get this far and why do YOU make excuses when over 8000 new Americans DAILY are infected with a sexual transmitted disease? Don't take my word for it. Look it up if you have the courage, that is.

fisherman -

Our schools have not failed merely in their duty to teach young people the knowledge needed for physical and moral health. By teaching dangerously flawed views about sex, and by facilitating harmful and illegal acts, our public schools now actively participate in the corruption of our youth.

I wonder if the US can largely be diagnosed with PT SD from Fox News and other media hounding us with fear news and trivial factoids that leave us anxious and distressed, unable to do much more than vote with pocketbooks in fear every time there is a "news alert" we react by going shopping

who benefits from this, and how do we get out of this rut?

while the Theocrats take full advantage of keeping their church and right wing constituents in fear of a rapture and impending muslim invasion, they disinform and keep them all stressed out and willing to give up freedoms as a trade for security, and never to get it back

I do not think my children have a bright future in US if we remain on this course

quote:

America's documents reflect Judeo-Christian principals, not humanist manifesto principals as ACLU would want you to believe.

The founders wanted separation of church and state. They studied the American Indian way of doing things, too.

Christianity as we know it borrowed a lot of its "principles" as well as its festivals, from earlier religions, including paganism. Many of those principles are formulae for getting through life and getting along with each other. It cannot claim a monopoly.

quote:

By teaching dangerously flawed views about sex, and by facilitating harmful and illegal acts, our public schools now actively participate in the corruption of our youth.

what is dangerously flawed about telling students the actual medical terms of things and by showing them how sex works and how to have safer sex? there is nothing dangerous about it at all, as opposed to your catholic cult, which teaches someones penis will fall off and go to hell if they have premarital sex.

your catholic church has been involved in teaching students dangerous and illegal acts. the catholic church teaches intolerance for those different, teach children never to disobey or question things, and have them living in fear of a magical lake of fire which doesnt exist.

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Which party wants God out of the public square?

which party wishes to exclude any other religions from public view? would you be willing to have part of the koran posted in schools GG?

quote:

Read the Koran. It states the Jewish nation Israel is to blame for "you name it," and furthermore, we are not a Muslim nation. The same book states that YOU WILL convert or your will pay homage, or you will loose your life.

YOU should read the koran GG. have you ever read it? since YOU made the claim that muslims MUST kill, please give the verse. certainly you have the info in front of you since you made the claim.

and btw, the bible, which you follow, commands its followers to kill all non believers. so how are you any differnt from the muslims? both of your books tell you to kill infidels. but christians like yourself pick and choose the passages that suit them and disgregard the rest.

quote:

I refer you to the 'humanist manifesto' that is ruining our great nation. I'll read the 'tripoli treaty' (is you send a link) if you'll read the humanist manifest

the "humanist manifesto" isnt a goverment treaty and has no bearing on the laws of man. the treaty of tripoli, on the other hand, clearly states america is not a christian nation.

treaty of tripoli

from link: (and 11 article of treaty)

quote:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

look at that!!! NOT , in ANY sense, a christian nation!! and it was signed by president jefferson, a founding father, and john adams, another founding father.

fisherman

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your catholic church has been involved in teaching

You hate the Catholic Church, fisherman. You are not a credible source to analyze what the teachings of the Catholic Church.

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what is dangerously flawed about telling students the actual medical terms of things and by showing them how sex works and how to have safer sex?

Not at 10 years old and sometimes younger. You're not informed of comprehensive sex ed. curricula that has infected public schools.

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would you be willing to have part of the koran posted in schools GG?

The Koran teaches world jihad; it teaches stoning, genital mutilations and subjugation of women - now why would I want WHAT!!???

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YOU should read the koran GG. have you ever read it? since YOU made the claim that muslims MUST kill, please give the verse. certainly you have the info in front of you since you made the claim.

YES! Maybe another time I'll spoon feeding you this info. You prove it is not in the koran to rule the world by force.

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and btw, the bible, which you follow, commands its followers to kill all non believers.

It teaches to love your enemies and do good to those who hate you.

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so how are you any differnt from the muslims?

Redemption of a Savior - love conquers.

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both of your books tell you to kill infidels. but christians like yourself pick and choose the passages that suit them and disgregard the rest.

for someone who is intelligent you sometimes speak so UNintelligently. You don't know what the Church teaches, fisherman and are getting an indoctrination of "U" in your education I fear.

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look at that!!! NOT , in ANY sense, a christian nation!! and it was signed by president jefferson, a founding father, and john adams, another founding father.

FROM YOUR SOURCE: _ _ _ "Article 11 has been a point of contention regarding the proper interpretation of the doctrine of separation of church and state. Supporters of the separation of church and state contend that this article is significant in that it confirms that the government of the United States was specifically intended to be religiously neutral. Supporters of the "Christian Nation" theory dispute this, arguing that the article in the treaty carries little or no significance." [2]


http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=125

Considering that some girls now menarche as young as eleven years old, it is proper to teach them bodily functions at an early age.

Retired Monk
"Ideology is a disease"

If we look at the history of Western civilization, we find that Christianity has illuminated the greatest achievements of the culture. Read the new atheist books and make a list of the institutions and values that Hitchens and Dawkins and the others cherish the most. They value the idea of the individual, and the right to dissent, and science as an autonomous enterprise, and representative democracy, and human rights, and equal rights for women and racial minorities, and the movement to end slavery, and compassion as a social virtue. But when you examine history you find that all of these values came into the world because of Christianity. If Christianity did not exist, these values would not exist in the form they do now.

So there is indeed something great about Christianity, and the honest atheist should be willing to admit this ....

SueN

quote:

The founders wanted separation of church and state. They studied the American Indian way of doing things, too.

The founders grasped that laws will change if designed by humanism. Their Unalienable concepts written in our US documents are based upon the immutable truths given to each and every person suitable to their nature of being. These are truths that will never change in any generation. Group consensus nor government gave Judeo Christian roots to this great nation. If Congress wars against these principles, they do in fact war against human nature and will create the demise of our nation.

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You hate the Catholic Church, fisherman. You are not a credible source to analyze what the teachings of the Catholic Church.

and you hate muslims, liberals, pro choice activists, immigrants, and science. you are not a credible sourse to analyze.....well....anything.

btw, i went to catholic church, recieved 4 sacriments, and yet im not a credible source?

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You don't know what the Church teaches, fisherman and are getting an indoctrination of "U" in your education I fear.

actually, i know more of the bible than you ever will GG. have you bothered to read it? did you know that in parts god kills nonbelievers and commands others to do the same? did you know there is an instance of incest in the bible?



as for your last post GG, you sound just like the radical muslims, who are you are not a credible source on, since "you hate them"

fisherman

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btw, i went to catholic church, recieved 4 sacriments, and yet im not a credible source?

That's not all there is.

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as for your last post GG, you sound just like the radical muslims, who are you are not a credible source on, since "you hate them"

Did you read in Sacred Scripture to love your enemies and do good to those who hate you?? NO! I thought you might have skipped that part.

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Did you read in Sacred Scripture to love your enemies and do good to those who hate you?? NO! I thought you might have skipped that part.

its obviously a part of the word you have choosen not to adhere to

quote:

The founders grasped that laws will change if designed by humanism. Their Unalienable concepts written in our US documents are based upon the immutable truths given to each and every person suitable to their nature of being. These are truths that will never change in any generation. Group consensus nor government gave Judeo Christian roots to this great nation. If Congress wars against these principles, they do in fact war against human nature and will create the demise of our nation.

Sorry GG, I don't follow.

Wouldn't you like each other to focus on the issues insteaed of hurling accusations at each other?

Why not start a bible class in the rophet's way Section, and learn together what the bible really says. That would be far more constructive and beneficial to you.

"Whose on first?"
..."What's on second?", GG asks!

This 'personae' is like a comedy routine of the Three Stooges. Only she jokes about serious things. It's that simple. Anybody with an appreciation of American History knows there's a lot at stake. It's adult stuff. It's NOT funny. Go away JOKER!

quote:

Originally posted by Sue N:

quote:

The founders grasped that laws will change if designed by humanism. Their Unalienable concepts written in our US documents are based upon the immutable truths given to each and every person suitable to their nature of being. These are truths that will never change in any generation. Group consensus nor government gave Judeo Christian roots to this great nation. If Congress wars against these principles, they do in fact war against human nature and will create the demise of our nation.

Sorry GG, I don't follow.

The founders of the US Documents understood that the dignity of the person is the indestructible property and the most precious possession of every human being's UNalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. These rights are not given by any human construct.

Every violation of the personal dignity of the human being is a vengeance to God and an offense against the Creator of the individual.

It is a life time pursuit to develop the human virtues which causes one to grasp the beauty and attraction of right disposition towards goodness.

Every violation of the personal dignity of the human being is a violation of that human being, and is a poor reflection of one's own humanity. No need to bring God into it.