So people are allowed to write books promoting their views on religion, and make films, but people who hold the opposite view should not? That's hardly fair.
actually sue, that only partly true. you see, GG and the fundamentals believe you can create religious films or books ONLY if that religion is their own. if it is otherwise, it is considered blasphemous, sinfull,or destructive.
such is the make believe world that the fundamentals live in. and this type of thinking follows their every decision.
in regards to the iraq war, the fundis were behind bush with the invasion. this was based on the "fact" that iraq had wmd. why is it ok for the united states to own wmd and other nations not too, esp since we were the only ones to use a nuclear device on civilians?
or how about in regards to abortion. the fundis condemn this 'barbaric' act, yet readily approve bombs on children in iraq.
the fundis say their religion is the most tolerant and peaceful, yet are quick to deny equal religious representation. a good example is the swearing in on the koran fiasco.
face it, christian fundamentalists in this nation are ignorant fools, blinded by their own morality compass, unable to see they are headed in the wrong direction.
------------------------------------------ debating conservatives is easy. so easy, even a caveman can do it!
"if this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck lot easier, just so long as im the dictator" -GWB Dec 18,2002
Posts: 1614 | Location: ft myers florida area | Registered: 23 September 2006
Originally posted by Sue N: So people are allowed to write books promoting their views on religion, and make films, but people who hold the opposite view should not? That's hardly fair.
America's documents reflect Judeo-Christian principals, not humanist manifesto principals as ACLU would want you to believe.
* * * * * * * * Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.
Posts: 6275 | Location: Maine | Registered: 31 December 2005
fisherman - Since prayer has been taken out of schools we are targeting our teens for a life of misery. There were only 2 stds in the '60s and now we have 80-100. Teens are constantly exposed to sex ed curricula since prayer is out and condoms and birth controls are freely passed out. Birth controls to teen girls increase their risk of liver, cervical and breast cancers. Condoms are naturally flawed yet we lie to teens they are safe.
Our teens are cutting themselves to have any sense of feelings; they are not being prepared for adulthood and our education system is an embarrassing failure in comparison to world studies thanks to the sex ed indoctrinators who purposely have removed classic studies to inject their poison. We are now killing 3000 babies daily and you and Sue rail against what once kept our youth safe - prayer and acknowledgment of God in schools based on our founding father's principals - that we are a Judeo Christian nation -not disciples of Wilhelm Reich who blatantly force programs for radicalizing society by undermining sexual morality.
Changing an individual's political viewpoint from conservatism to liberalism, the character of the individual must first be altered or destroyed through sexual liberation.
* * * * * * * * Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.
Posts: 6275 | Location: Maine | Registered: 31 December 2005
America's documents reflect Judeo-Christian principals, not humanist manifesto principals as ACLU would want you to believe.
GG, read the treaty of tripoli, which states and proves america is NOT a christian nation.
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fisherman - Since prayer has been taken out of schools we are targeting our teens for a life of misery.
so, if we install muslim prayer in schools, since it is a form of prayer, then we can expect everything to be hunky dory.
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There were only 2 stds in the '60s and now we have 80-100.
do you have proof of these numbers? or is it just another fabrication of facts to suit your agenda?
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Teens are constantly exposed to sex ed curricula since prayer is out and condoms and birth controls are freely passed out
and what is the relation between sex education, which is a scientific medical course, and prayer, which relys on fantasy and wishful thinking?
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Birth controls to teen girls increase their risk of liver, cervical and breast cancers.
which science or modern science has not proven. yet another 'creation of facts' which dont exist in the real world, only in the world of religious nutcases
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Condoms are naturally flawed yet we lie to teens they are safe.
naturally flawed in what ways? it even says on the CONDOM PACKAGE that they dont protect against stds and it is not 100% effective as a contraceptive.
and by "we" , you must mean yourself and te other religious fundis who would rather have no protection for the sexually active instead of something which offers some protection against pregnacy.
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Our teens are cutting themselves to have any sense of feelings;
so you now feel the need to stereotype all teenagers as troubled kids who have to mutalate themselves?
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they are not being prepared for adulthood and our education system is an embarrassing failure in comparison to world studies thanks to the sex ed indoctrinators who purposely have removed classic studies to inject their poison
and what classic studies are removed in catholic schools to make room and time for religious studies? how are those children supposed to grow up to become adults when valuable life studies are being removed for bible courses or other catholic nonsense?
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We are now killing 3000 babies daily and you and Sue rail against what once kept our youth safe
by "we" you must mean christians. after all GG, it was YOU that stated most americans are christians, therfore most abortions are also caused by christians. what irony.
quote:
prayer and acknowledgment of God in schools based on our founding father's principals - that we are a Judeo Christian nation
once again, i refer you to the treaty of tripoli, which states america is NOT a christian nation. this treaty btw, was ratified by many of the founding fathers.
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Changing an individual's political viewpoint from conservatism to liberalism, the character of the individual must first be altered or destroyed through sexual liberation.
lol what kind of statement is that?? lol. changing ones viewpoint has nothing to do with 'sexual' liberation. and to prove that, i offer you the cases of our wonderful gop CONSERVATIVE representatives who found such 'sexual liberation' in the form of gay sex. or how about the thousands of catholic priests who prey on young men? do they recieve "sexual liberation" from their actions as well?
face it, most religious conervatives are hypocrites. they contradict themselves at every moments; on one hand clamouring for the end of sexual freedom while preforming the same act on the other hand.
sue, what is your take on all this nonsense?
------------------------------------------ debating conservatives is easy. so easy, even a caveman can do it!
"if this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck lot easier, just so long as im the dictator" -GWB Dec 18,2002
Posts: 1614 | Location: ft myers florida area | Registered: 23 September 2006
Read the Koran. It states the Jewish nation Israel is to blame for "you name it," and furthermore, we are not a Muslim nation. The same book states that YOU WILL convert or your will pay homage, or you will loose your life.
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so you now feel the need to stereotype all teenagers as troubled kids who have to mutalate themselves?
Sexually active youth cannot handle the life style nor are their natures ever meant to adapt to living a hedonistic - use their bodies and other's bodies, in disgraceful manners. Consciences are conflicted and they resort to more harmful attacks against themselves and society. I'm not stating ALL, I'm stating the teens who have fallen for the liberal lies that they have a right to sexual gratification without any moral restraints. It interferes with education they have a right to receive and denies them the preparation for their human vocation.
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therfore most abortions are also caused by christians. what irony.
Which party claims it as sacrament? Which party is joined to the hip with planned baron hood that targets blacks for extermination? Which party supports CAIR and the ACLU? Which party wants God out of the public square?
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i refer you to the treaty of tripoli
I refer you to the 'humanist manifesto' that is ruining our great nation. I'll read the 'tripoli treaty' (is you send a link) if you'll read the humanist manifest and tell me what part of the H.M. document the liberals have not supported in full force desiring demise of our great nation.
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on one hand clamouring for the end of sexual freedom while preforming the same act on the other hand.
Tell me about the liberals' position on "sexual freedom". Why have they worked ferociously to get God out, condoms, birth controls pills and abortion in?
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how about the thousands of catholic priests who prey on young men? do they recieve "sexual liberation" from their actions as well?
Yes, fisherman, some priests have sinned against themselves and all society. It does not change the fact that it is not taught by the Catholic Church. Any sex outside of marriage is a sin, fisherman. You can't cover over the fact that there are many consequences to sinful behavior. The Catholic Church is paying the price for the terrible behavior of these priests, but you are overlooking that all society is suffering from the same deeds and these dreadful actions are STILL being encouraged right in the class rooms beginning at a very young age.
* * * * * * * * Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.
Posts: 6275 | Location: Maine | Registered: 31 December 2005
quote: There were only 2 stds in the '60s and now we have 80-100.
do you have proof of these numbers? or is it just another fabrication of facts to suit your agenda?
See the thread, "EPIDEMIC - Teens sex is killing our kids" written by pediatric doctor Meg Meek. I've posted some of the facts and links. I have the book and find it very difficult to read. We owe our youth a major apology for not loving enough to keep them safe. How did it get this far and why do YOU make excuses when over 8000 new Americans DAILY are infected with a sexual transmitted disease? Don't take my word for it. Look it up if you have the courage, that is.
* * * * * * * * Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.
Posts: 6275 | Location: Maine | Registered: 31 December 2005
Our schools have not failed merely in their duty to teach young people the knowledge needed for physical and moral health. By teaching dangerously flawed views about sex, and by facilitating harmful and illegal acts, our public schools now actively participate in the corruption of our youth.
* * * * * * * * Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.
Posts: 6275 | Location: Maine | Registered: 31 December 2005
I wonder if the US can largely be diagnosed with PT SD from Fox News and other media hounding us with fear news and trivial factoids that leave us anxious and distressed, unable to do much more than vote with pocketbooks in fear every time there is a "news alert" we react by going shopping
who benefits from this, and how do we get out of this rut?
while the Theocrats take full advantage of keeping their church and right wing constituents in fear of a rapture and impending muslim invasion, they disinform and keep them all stressed out and willing to give up freedoms as a trade for security, and never to get it back
I do not think my children have a bright future in US if we remain on this course
America's documents reflect Judeo-Christian principals, not humanist manifesto principals as ACLU would want you to believe.
The founders wanted separation of church and state. They studied the American Indian way of doing things, too.
Christianity as we know it borrowed a lot of its "principles" as well as its festivals, from earlier religions, including paganism. Many of those principles are formulae for getting through life and getting along with each other. It cannot claim a monopoly.
Sue N.
Posts: 4624 | Location: UK | Registered: 16 November 2004
By teaching dangerously flawed views about sex, and by facilitating harmful and illegal acts, our public schools now actively participate in the corruption of our youth.
what is dangerously flawed about telling students the actual medical terms of things and by showing them how sex works and how to have safer sex? there is nothing dangerous about it at all, as opposed to your catholic cult, which teaches someones penis will fall off and go to hell if they have premarital sex.
your catholic church has been involved in teaching students dangerous and illegal acts. the catholic church teaches intolerance for those different, teach children never to disobey or question things, and have them living in fear of a magical lake of fire which doesnt exist.
quote:
Which party wants God out of the public square?
which party wishes to exclude any other religions from public view? would you be willing to have part of the koran posted in schools GG?
quote:
Read the Koran. It states the Jewish nation Israel is to blame for "you name it," and furthermore, we are not a Muslim nation. The same book states that YOU WILL convert or your will pay homage, or you will loose your life.
YOU should read the koran GG. have you ever read it? since YOU made the claim that muslims MUST kill, please give the verse. certainly you have the info in front of you since you made the claim.
and btw, the bible, which you follow, commands its followers to kill all non believers. so how are you any differnt from the muslims? both of your books tell you to kill infidels. but christians like yourself pick and choose the passages that suit them and disgregard the rest.
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I refer you to the 'humanist manifesto' that is ruining our great nation. I'll read the 'tripoli treaty' (is you send a link) if you'll read the humanist manifest
the "humanist manifesto" isnt a goverment treaty and has no bearing on the laws of man. the treaty of tripoli, on the other hand, clearly states america is not a christian nation.
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
look at that!!! NOT , in ANY sense, a christian nation!! and it was signed by president jefferson, a founding father, and john adams, another founding father.
------------------------------------------ debating conservatives is easy. so easy, even a caveman can do it!
"if this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck lot easier, just so long as im the dictator" -GWB Dec 18,2002
Posts: 1614 | Location: ft myers florida area | Registered: 23 September 2006
your catholic church has been involved in teaching
You hate the Catholic Church, fisherman. You are not a credible source to analyze what the teachings of the Catholic Church.
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what is dangerously flawed about telling students the actual medical terms of things and by showing them how sex works and how to have safer sex?
Not at 10 years old and sometimes younger. You're not informed of comprehensive sex ed. curricula that has infected public schools.
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would you be willing to have part of the koran posted in schools GG?
The Koran teaches world jihad; it teaches stoning, genital mutilations and subjugation of women - now why would I want WHAT!!???
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YOU should read the koran GG. have you ever read it? since YOU made the claim that muslims MUST kill, please give the verse. certainly you have the info in front of you since you made the claim.
YES! Maybe another time I'll spoon feeding you this info. You prove it is not in the koran to rule the world by force.
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and btw, the bible, which you follow, commands its followers to kill all non believers.
It teaches to love your enemies and do good to those who hate you.
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so how are you any differnt from the muslims?
Redemption of a Savior - love conquers.
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both of your books tell you to kill infidels. but christians like yourself pick and choose the passages that suit them and disgregard the rest.
for someone who is intelligent you sometimes speak so UNintelligently. You don't know what the Church teaches, fisherman and are getting an indoctrination of "U" in your education I fear.
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look at that!!! NOT , in ANY sense, a christian nation!! and it was signed by president jefferson, a founding father, and john adams, another founding father.
FROM YOUR SOURCE: _ _ _ "Article 11 has been a point of contention regarding the proper interpretation of the doctrine of separation of church and state. Supporters of the separation of church and state contend that this article is significant in that it confirms that the government of the United States was specifically intended to be religiously neutral. Supporters of the "Christian Nation" theory dispute this, arguing that the article in the treaty carries little or no significance." [2]
If we look at the history of Western civilization, we find that Christianity has illuminated the greatest achievements of the culture. Read the new atheist books and make a list of the institutions and values that Hitchens and Dawkins and the others cherish the most. They value the idea of the individual, and the right to dissent, and science as an autonomous enterprise, and representative democracy, and human rights, and equal rights for women and racial minorities, and the movement to end slavery, and compassion as a social virtue. But when you examine history you find that all of these values came into the world because of Christianity. If Christianity did not exist, these values would not exist in the form they do now.
So there is indeed something great about Christianity, and the honest atheist should be willing to admit this ....
* * * * * * * * Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.
Posts: 6275 | Location: Maine | Registered: 31 December 2005
The founders wanted separation of church and state. They studied the American Indian way of doing things, too.
The founders grasped that laws will change if designed by humanism. Their Unalienable concepts written in our US documents are based upon the immutable truths given to each and every person suitable to their nature of being. These are truths that will never change in any generation. Group consensus nor government gave Judeo Christian roots to this great nation. If Congress wars against these principles, they do in fact war against human nature and will create the demise of our nation.
* * * * * * * * Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.
Posts: 6275 | Location: Maine | Registered: 31 December 2005
You hate the Catholic Church, fisherman. You are not a credible source to analyze what the teachings of the Catholic Church.
and you hate muslims, liberals, pro choice activists, immigrants, and science. you are not a credible sourse to analyze.....well....anything.
btw, i went to catholic church, recieved 4 sacriments, and yet im not a credible source?
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You don't know what the Church teaches, fisherman and are getting an indoctrination of "U" in your education I fear.
actually, i know more of the bible than you ever will GG. have you bothered to read it? did you know that in parts god kills nonbelievers and commands others to do the same? did you know there is an instance of incest in the bible?
as for your last post GG, you sound just like the radical muslims, who are you are not a credible source on, since "you hate them"
------------------------------------------ debating conservatives is easy. so easy, even a caveman can do it!
"if this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck lot easier, just so long as im the dictator" -GWB Dec 18,2002
Posts: 1614 | Location: ft myers florida area | Registered: 23 September 2006
The founders grasped that laws will change if designed by humanism. Their Unalienable concepts written in our US documents are based upon the immutable truths given to each and every person suitable to their nature of being. These are truths that will never change in any generation. Group consensus nor government gave Judeo Christian roots to this great nation. If Congress wars against these principles, they do in fact war against human nature and will create the demise of our nation.
Sorry GG, I don't follow.
Sue N.
Posts: 4624 | Location: UK | Registered: 16 November 2004
Wouldn't you like each other to focus on the issues insteaed of hurling accusations at each other?
Why not start a bible class in the rophet's way Section, and learn together what the bible really says. That would be far more constructive and beneficial to you.
Sue N.
Posts: 4624 | Location: UK | Registered: 16 November 2004
"Whose on first?" ..."What's on second?", GG asks!
This 'personae' is like a comedy routine of the Three Stooges. Only she jokes about serious things. It's that simple. Anybody with an appreciation of American History knows there's a lot at stake. It's adult stuff. It's NOT funny. Go away JOKER!
Posts: 582 | Location: New York City | Registered: 13 February 2007
The founders grasped that laws will change if designed by humanism. Their Unalienable concepts written in our US documents are based upon the immutable truths given to each and every person suitable to their nature of being. These are truths that will never change in any generation. Group consensus nor government gave Judeo Christian roots to this great nation. If Congress wars against these principles, they do in fact war against human nature and will create the demise of our nation.
Sorry GG, I don't follow.
The founders of the US Documents understood that the dignity of the person is the indestructible property and the most precious possession of every human being's UNalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. These rights are not given by any human construct.
Every violation of the personal dignity of the human being is a vengeance to God and an offense against the Creator of the individual.
It is a life time pursuit to develop the human virtues which causes one to grasp the beauty and attraction of right disposition towards goodness.
* * * * * * * * Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.
Posts: 6275 | Location: Maine | Registered: 31 December 2005
Every violation of the personal dignity of the human being is a violation of that human being, and is a poor reflection of one's own humanity. No need to bring God into it.
Sue N.
Posts: 4624 | Location: UK | Registered: 16 November 2004
We are one Nation Under God - - - Here are some examples of the faith proclaimed by 96% of the American people:
On June 15, 1954, Congress passed and President Eisenhower signed into law a statute that was clearly consistent with the text and intent of the Constitution of the United States, that amended the Pledge of Allegiance to read: `I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.';
On July 20, 1956, Congress proclaimed that the national motto of the United States is `In God We Trust', and that motto is inscribed above the main door of the Senate, behind the Chair of the Speaker of the House of Representatives, and on the currency of the United States.
* * * * * * * * Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.
Posts: 6275 | Location: Maine | Registered: 31 December 2005
In less than 230 years our great nation of the United States has a population of 300 million people. It has become the most powerful, the most successful achieving innovative affluent society in the history of human civilization.
Europeans, Asians, and other nations/cultures have been around thousands of years longer. FREEDOM is the core reason of Americans' exceptionalism.
* * * * * * * * Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.
Posts: 6275 | Location: Maine | Registered: 31 December 2005
Originally posted by GG: In less than 230 years our great nation of the United States has a population of 300 million people. It has become the most powerful, the most successful achieving innovative affluent society in the history of human civilization.
Europeans, Asians, and other nations/cultures have been around thousands of years longer. FREEDOM is the core reason of Americans' exceptionalism.
A contintent rich in natural resources and isolated from the wars of the Old World might have something to do with it. Exceptional? Nope. After only several centuries, we are already in a state of decline soon to be overtaken by Communist China. Other nations have maintained their peak for much longer periods
Retired Monk "Ideology is a disease"
Posts: 3412 | Location: denver co | Registered: 17 April 2007
No offense my friend, but you violate the commandment,
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in Vain...
How dare you claim we are one nation under god.
Please dont blame my GOD for the largest weapons productions in History, Sin-city, the capital of Porn, Abotion, drugs, crime, and Gay pride (not that there is anything worng with that)
I onced believed, 1-nation under GOD, Until I saw Billy Grahm on TV while visiting Russia in the 1980`s.
Grahm said that there were a few christians in the USA but the majority of americans are selfish Human secularists. (myself included at that time)
Correct; One Nation Under G..O...D..... Guns-Oil-Drugs
my kingdom is not of this world ??
All the worlds weapons are a symbol of human failure
Posts: 92 | Location: Pittsburgh Pa | Registered: 08 February 2007
I agree with Fisherman. There should be no laws against anything except christianity. We should be able to have as much sex anytime we want, with anyone we want, anywhere we want in front of anybody we want. I believe that babies have no rights except to die if the mother so wishes. I believe men should be able to do anything they want with other men with impunity and without some religious zealot judging them. That is a hate crime. The founding fathers would whole heartedly agree. All christians hate what they call sin so therefore they should all be herded into death camps and systematically be exterminated. I am for the lifting of all laws against any form of narcotic one so chooses to indulge in. The founding fathers would whole heartedly agree. I am for childrens access to any and all pornography and they should have the right to engage in any form of sex at any age with any age group. I am against punishing criminals after all, that's inhumane. We need more compassion for murderers and child molesters.The founding fathers would whole heartedly agree. I am for public nudity, public sex of all ages anywhere, anytime and if anyone gets in trouble for their actions/conduct, the tax payers had better dang well be ready to foot the bill. I am for full blown socialism/communism, after all look at the good it has done Russia, China, and other countries. Anyone who does not see that, is an idiot conservative. I am against gun ownership. Every intelligent person knows dang well that people don't kill people, guns do. All law abiding folks need to be relieved of their hunting rifles immediately. The law breakers will turn theirs in also, every sane person knows that. I'm totally for the so-called parents rights to be abridged. Parents don't have a clue how to raise their children, especially those ignorant jesus freaks. Teaching their children to obstain from fleshly lusts and instant carnal gratification is wrecking their young lives. The carnage is deplorable. Us S.P.'s can handle the job. The constitution elaborates quite thoroughly on the 'rights' of people to defecate on the sidewalk or copulate in the park facilities or engage in drugs and all conduct imaginable, the founding fathers would whole heartedly agree, it's in the constitution you idiot. Finally..there is no God...I am a god unto myself...you are to! Do I qualify now as a card carrying liberal!! God bless...whoops...I mean Darwin bless America.
Posts: 24 | Location: Here | Registered: 21 November 2007
I agree with Fisherman. There should be no laws against anything except christianity. We should be able to have as much sex anytime we want, with anyone we want, anywhere we want in front of anybody we want.
you agree with me about what? i last posted on this thread 11 days ago and it wasnt about anything you mentioned. dont try to smear my name by suggesting i think like you.
------------------------------------------ debating conservatives is easy. so easy, even a caveman can do it!
"if this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck lot easier, just so long as im the dictator" -GWB Dec 18,2002
Posts: 1614 | Location: ft myers florida area | Registered: 23 September 2006
actually sue, that only partly true. you see, GG and the fundamentals believe you can create religious films or books ONLY if that religion is their own. if it is otherwise, it is considered blasphemous, sinfull,or destructive.
such is the make believe world that the fundamentals live in. and this type of thinking follows their every decision.
in regards to the iraq war, the fundis were behind bush with the invasion. this was based on the "fact" that iraq had wmd. why is it ok for the united states to own wmd and other nations not too, esp since we were the only ones to use a nuclear device on civilians?
or how about in regards to abortion. the fundis condemn this 'barbaric' act, yet readily approve bombs on children in iraq.
the fundis say their religion is the most tolerant and peaceful, yet are quick to deny equal religious representation. a good example is the swearing in on the koran fiasco.
face it, christian fundamentalists in this nation are ignorant fools, blinded by their own morality compass, unable to see they are headed in the wrong direction.
------------------------------------------ debating conservatives is easy. so easy, even a cav
What was it now that you said i did? I smeared you? Ahhhhhhhh..por beebee!
Posts: 24 | Location: Here | Registered: 21 November 2007
I'm proud to be an American and I live each day in gratitude to have the freedom to life, to liberty, and to the pursuit of happiness. No other nation can compare. Let's honor especially this special day those who have given their lives to make Thanksgiving Day possible and those who are currently "on the line" separated from their loved ones defending our great United States of America.
* * * * * * * * Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.
Posts: 6275 | Location: Maine | Registered: 31 December 2005
Originally posted by leesley: Fisherman smeared a lot of folks:
quote:
actually sue, that only partly true. you see, GG and the fundamentals believe you can create religious films or books ONLY if that religion is their own. if it is otherwise, it is considered blasphemous, sinfull,or destructive.
such is the make believe world that the fundamentals live in. and this type of thinking follows their every decision. in regards to the iraq war, the fundis were behind bush with the invasion. this was based on the "fact" that iraq had wmd. why is it ok for the united states to own wmd and other nations not too, esp since we were the only ones to use a nuclear device on civilians?
or how about in regards to abortion. the fundis condemn this 'barbaric' act, yet readily approve bombs on children in iraq.
the fundis say their religion is the most tolerant and peaceful, yet are quick to deny equal religious representation. a good example is the swearing in on the koran fiasco.
face it, christian fundamentalists in this nation are ignorant fools, blinded by their own morality compass, unable to see they are headed in the wrong direction.
------------------------------------------ debating conservatives is easy. so easy, even a cav
What was it now that you said i did? I smeared you? Ahhhhhhhh..por beebee!
From my own experience, most Fundies I've talked with have never read Christ's teachings for themselves. And never in my experioence, has one quoted Him when they refer to Scripture...unless it's the "being saved" term taken out of context....the conditions for that "saving" being totally ignored.
They will quote the "He who believes in Me will be saved", for instance. then ignore what Christ said belief entails; "He who believes in me will KEEP my sayings". Most have no clue what those sayings are.
I would think that at least having a bit of familiarity with what Christ taught would be a pre-requisite to claiming the mantel of Christianity. It isn't. More often than not, the writings of St. Paul are taught, not the teachings of Christ. Generally, Paul is taught in a way that totally contradicts the very clear teachings of Christ. Scribes, Pharacees and wolves in sheeps clothing abound.
Retired Monk "Ideology is a disease"
Posts: 3412 | Location: denver co | Registered: 17 April 2007
Polycarp, how are ya, nice meeting you. Actually one cannot use any resource at all, too much or too little, scripture or no scripture, it makes no difference to those who oppose themselves. All attempts for rational discussion are preempted by the closed mind. And fisherman, i am not a fundi. I am a liberal. Read you not my list of proud credentials??
Posts: 24 | Location: Here | Registered: 21 November 2007
Originally posted by leesley: Polycarp, how are ya, nice meeting you. Actually one cannot use any resource at all, too much or too little, scripture or no scripture, it makes no difference to those who oppose themselves. All attempts for rational discussion are preempted by the closed mind. And fisherman, i am not a fundi. I am a liberal. Read you not my list of proud credentials??
How many are not in opposition to themselves? The clown, the smiley face with the tear abounds. The circus clown has the tear painted on his face. In real life, its kept hidden from view...often even from ourselves.
When man accepts his own nature without all the "stuff" piled on top of it, there is no interest in condemning or harming another. No tear to cover up, blame on others, and act out in harmful ways.
Religion is a guide to this...not a tool to cover up the tear, but a means of erasing it. An internal process, not an outward one. Religion taught as an externality is a failure. Know your "original face".
What another does, how another acts is of no concern unless they are harming another. Focusing on anothers "failures" keeps one from focusing on their own. Keeps one in opposition to oneself, and the internal contradictions abound rather than being dealt with.
If someone wants a rigid law to support a moral concept they have, chances are its the very moral concept they are struggling with themselves. Rather than dealing with it internally, they seek a law to prevent themselves from breaking it. If it requires the death of millions, so be it. Hitler played this to the hilt. He offered the Germans "morality".
Retired Monk "Ideology is a disease"
Posts: 3412 | Location: denver co | Registered: 17 April 2007
Hitler played this to the hilt. He offered the Germans "morality".
Hitler offered an "all things relative morality" which is the biggest threat to freedom in existence in the world today. Those in positions of authority and/or the not so influential would not oppose him for the sake of their measly little jobs. Nothing has changed.
* * * * * * * * Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.
Posts: 6275 | Location: Maine | Registered: 31 December 2005
GG, come on now. You have got to try and understand precious folks like poly. They just want to feel good and fuzzy and not be hounded by the wacko right with thousands of years of pure wisdom and common sense...so-called. If it feels gooooood.....do it! Lighten up on the S.P's.
Posts: 24 | Location: Here | Registered: 21 November 2007
Hitler offered an "all things relative morality" which is the biggest threat to freedom in existence in the world today. Those in positions of authority and/or the not so influential would not oppose him for the sake of their measly little jobs. Nothing has changed
and your demigod duffus is leading the way
wasnt it he that called the war on terror "a crusade", giving it religious overtones?
hasnt he taken advantage of his position to impliment some of his "moral" views, like anti homosexual laws and the reintoduction of prayer into public schools (but only if that prayer is the christian kind; all others not allowed)
sounds like the makings of 'little hitler' to me.
------------------------------------------ debating conservatives is easy. so easy, even a caveman can do it!
"if this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck lot easier, just so long as im the dictator" -GWB Dec 18,2002
Posts: 1614 | Location: ft myers florida area | Registered: 23 September 2006
another way bushy boy is trying to be like hilter is how his is invoking moral justification to overturn Roe vs Wade. much like how hilter gave german authorities the 'right' to medically experiment on jews, he is now attempting to relive history and have the goverment dictate what a group of people (women in this case) can and cannot do with their body.
when one uses religious or moral views to shape a nation, the end result is a nation that denys freedoms or subjegates its people. the united states is headed this way and its not because of a hostile takeover by islam. instead, we are being dismantled internally by self proclaimed christians.
do we want a society, much like saudi arabia, where religion influences our judicial system? can we afford to incarcerate people based on the religious beliefs of others?
------------------------------------------ debating conservatives is easy. so easy, even a caveman can do it!
"if this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck lot easier, just so long as im the dictator" -GWB Dec 18,2002
Posts: 1614 | Location: ft myers florida area | Registered: 23 September 2006
Originally posted by leesley: GG, come on now. You have got to try and understand precious folks like poly. They just want to feel good and fuzzy and not be hounded by the wacko right with thousands of years of pure wisdom and common sense...so-called. If it feels gooooood.....do it! Lighten up on the S.P's.
Since when has the right ever had wisdom and common sense? Human progress has always been blocked by the right. Monarchists were "rightists". Dictatorships are "rightist".
Here is an interesting thought for you: Within the Soviet Union, Gorbochev was considered "left"...the Communist elite protesting reform and democratization were considered "right".
The right has always supported a status quo and rule of the few over the many. The left has always been on the opposite side of that aisle.
Society functions on rules...rules that prevent one individual from harming another. A personal moral view that isn't harmful to another has no business being legislated against...it's harmful to another individual, and in itself, thus become immoral.
Many "christians" hold a so-called moral view that in itself is immoral.
Retired Monk "Ideoloogy is a disease"
Posts: 3412 | Location: denver co | Registered: 17 April 2007
I said 'so-called' poly...they're all idiots. You and i know that the founding fathers started this nation with true wisdom endorsing porno, socialism, open borders, compassion for terrorists, compassion for child [lovers], Judge Cashman is my man, baby killing, condoms for kids, drugs, sex and rock and roll. These are the things that make this country great...i'm on your side poly.Darwin bless.
Posts: 24 | Location: Here | Registered: 21 November 2007
the goverment dictate what a group of people (women in this case) can and cannot do with their body.
Why do we have drug laws?
No one has unlimited dominion over their body?
From your liberalized corner of the world, they are teaching that suicide is an acceptable option. Liberalism has gone astray and knows no boundaries. It's hijacked concepts always leads to death.
All cultures are harmed by abortion. See Map Of Shame discussion. None have the authority to treat bodies merely as raw material.
leesly -
polycarp - I believe you are very conflicted and have compromised at some point in your life what is Truth.
Natural law indicates the truth about the person, and what is personhood. Human beings have a natural inclination towards the good.
We recognize ourselves as person through the sacrifices we offer for others. We recognize ourselves as person when we protect the dignity, value and worth of each person from conception to natural death.
* * * * * * * * Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.
Posts: 6275 | Location: Maine | Registered: 31 December 2005
Originally posted by leesley: I said 'so-called' poly...they're all idiots. You and i know that the founding fathers started this nation with true wisdom endorsing porno, socialism, open borders, compassion for terrorists, compassion for child [lovers], Judge Cashman is my man, baby killing, condoms for kids, drugs, sex and rock and roll. These are the things that make this country great...i'm on your side poly.Darwin bless.
Well Leesly, research has shown porno harmful and profitable. Unregulated business likes the profit and the Supreme Court agrees with business.
The U.S. WAS founded on open borders...at least open under white man's law. I doubt your ancestors were born here unless you are Native American.
The desire for sex is built into our species as it is every other species. It can be harmful or not. If you don't like sex, take it up with your concept of God.
Today's rock and roll is tomorrow nostalgia. I didn't like it as a kid. I preferred Beethoven. Still do. And I won't force anyone to listen to his 5th Symphony which in my view is the greatest piece of music ever written. I won't interfere in your style of dress, either.
The U.S. was founded on a compassion for justice...trial by jury and the writ of habeus corpus. Sorry you think that is compassion for terrorists. Take it up with the Founding Fathers.
If you don't like the General Welfare clause in the Constitution, call for an amendment and get rid of it.
Socialism has never really been implemented successfully in any country I know of and certainly not this one. When defined as an absence of capitalism...of markets...society can't function. No system can function without a marketplace...the private buying and selling of goods and property. A regulation of that marketplace isn't socialism, its a guidance of that market place into being of benefit to a society rather than being destructive to it.
Get off your fundie soapbox and adhere to issues.
GG, you recognize yourself as a person when you wake up in the morning and look in the mirror. You should learn to sacrifice for others by biting your lip, walking a mile in their shoes, and stop condemning people for being different than you. Either that, or give up the pretense of religion. You drive people away from the possibility of wanting to seek spiritual growth. No one wants growth that leads to rigidity....that isn't growth, its blindness.
If you dislike teen sex, take it up with God and neurobiologists. It seems to be triggered by the environments ability to readily sustain life without famine. Like or not, as young as 11 or 12 when environmental possibilities are favorable.
If this offends you, I suggest you pray to God to remove this biological trigger rather than passing laws against it. Or at least educate minors to deal with it.
Retired Monk "Ideology is a disease"
Posts: 3412 | Location: denver co | Registered: 17 April 2007
My goodness Poly, I'm on your side. From whence cometh this angst? There is no God. You and I are way to smart to believe that this universe and all it contains required an intelligent designer. Mushy 'christian' hogwash at best. Now please quit accusing me of placing our troubles squarely on our own shoulders. It's our environment's fault. Not ours. There are no absolutes. Man in his supreme intellect must scale those mountains of superstition and free the people from...well...superstition. To believe that a single cell of life with all it's thousands, if not millions of intricate perfect numbered parts, cannot come into existence all on it's own without dreaming up some dumb god, is absurdly absurd. Besides, I don't want some 'thing' up in the sky looking over my shoulder and telling me what I can and what I can't do. This is my life. I don't have to give an account to no one. There are NO rules of behaviour because there is No rule giver..period. Even if I spell the word behaviour wrong..WHO's to say it is wrong.No one can judge ME!! All is relative. Besides, if there is a god, he or she, where are they , I can't see them, so therefore they cannot exist...'cause I say so...period. Darwin bless ya Poly.
Posts: 24 | Location: Here | Registered: 21 November 2007
I used to support the aggregate effects of abortion rights laws. Now I do not. How can anyone support the conditions in which this treatment is necessary? However, I WILL NOT support the opposition, or Right To Life movement. That is an advertisemtent for Conservative causes. In another day and time, I'll calmly debate the issues with more mature people. None of those type of folks have started this blog strain, or the strains: 'It's a Racquet', or 'Love Them Both', or 'Respectfully Warnings', or 'Our Incredible Human Potential', or 'The Feminization of America', 'The War Against Fatherhood', or 'Libraries Fail to Warn', or 'World Threats', or 'China's Unsafe Food and Drugs', or 'Pope Benedict XVI', or 'Solar/Cyclical Phenomenon', or 'America: God Shed His Grace On Thee', or 'This is My Song' or others just to name a few. And a caveat: it probably doesn't make sense to associate with activists in the aforementioned movement! They have been known to commit the second wrong of murder of folks. What could be worse than that?
Posts: 582 | Location: New York City | Registered: 13 February 2007
Originally posted by leesley: My goodness Poly, I'm on your side. From whence cometh this angst? There is no God. You and I are way to smart to believe that this universe and all it contains required an intelligent designer. Mushy 'christian' hogwash at best. Now please quit accusing me of placing our troubles squarely on our own shoulders. It's our environment's fault. Not ours. There are no absolutes. Man in his supreme intellect must scale those mountains of superstition and free the people from...well...superstition. To believe that a single cell of life with all it's thousands, if not millions of intricate perfect numbered parts, cannot come into existence all on it's own without dreaming up some dumb god, is absurdly absurd. Besides, I don't want some 'thing' up in the sky looking over my shoulder and telling me what I can and what I can't do. This is my life. I don't have to give an account to no one. There are NO rules of behaviour because there is No rule giver..period. Even if I spell the word behaviour wrong..WHO's to say it is wrong.No one can judge ME!! All is relative. Besides, if there is a god, he or she, where are they , I can't see them, so therefore they cannot exist...'cause I say so...period. Darwin bless ya Poly.
Prisons are full of people who think there are no rules of behavior, are they not? You don't have to look at some god in the sky to determine your own actions. Look at your own experience of them rather than your thoughts about them. There is a tendency in human beings to confuse the two.
I'm pleased to know your life is one of fullfilled contentment. Nice to meet a self-actualized being who has reached the pinnacle of human consiousness. They are rare. Maslow would be proud. As a self-actualized being, I'm certain you have discovered one of the great truths upon this obtainment..."Contributing to the quality of another's life triggers the internal experience of having contributed to one's own."
Where did you get the idea that religion consists of creating a god in one's own image and under one's own definitions? Take a gander at Bhuddhist thought (no diety) and perhaps you'll understand Christianity and your own nature a little better.
Retired Monk "Ideology is a disease"
Posts: 3412 | Location: denver co | Registered: 17 April 2007
I agree fisherman...anybody that believes that killing babies is wrong has to be a Hitler.....after all, Hitler loved and cared for babies!
i didnt say anyone who doesnt like killing babies is a hitler.
i did imply that if a nation, like the united states, impliments anti-abortion laws based on religion (like the fundis want), then we are heading down the same slope as hitler and other religious led nations.
i personally dont agree with abortion. but there are cases where abortions are actually warrented. the religious nuts want abortions banned for everyone, despite the circumstances. they see everything as black and white/absolute or obsolete.
while i personally dont agree with abortion, its not up to religious groups or the government to tell people what to do with our bodies.
------------------------------------------ debating conservatives is easy. so easy, even a caveman can do it!
"if this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck lot easier, just so long as im the dictator" -GWB Dec 18,2002
Posts: 1614 | Location: ft myers florida area | Registered: 23 September 2006
Originally posted by leesley: I agree fisherman...anybody that believes that killing babies is wrong has to be a Hitler.....after all, Hitler loved and cared for babies!
Actually, he did if they were German babies from the right stock. Abortion for Germans fitting the criteria were not allowed.
It was those pesky millions of others that he had a problem with...the living ones. I'm sure he'd be filled with glee at the 500,000 Iraqi children's deaths the U.S. has contributed to starting even before the invasion. Seig Bush!
Some babies good. Some babies bad. Thus seems to be current Christian theology.
Retired Monk "Ideology is a disease"
Posts: 3412 | Location: denver co | Registered: 17 April 2007
I agree poly, we should have never entered the war. Bush should have known that all those voices clamoring that saddam had wmd's was false.And all those thousands that saddam killed and butchered, well...well....uhh...anyway, Bush is no good!
Posts: 24 | Location: Here | Registered: 21 November 2007
SP's find it hypocritical for christians to hope that muslims don't take over Washington imposing their religion. How are christians imposing their moral beliefs? At the ballot box. How do muslims impose their beliefs? With a sharp bloody blade. Why do christians try to impose their morals? For the strengthening of the social fabric which results in happy campers and a lesser strain on the government purse.[called horse sense in the old days. where are the horses when you need them]. Why do muslims want to impose their religion on everyone else? They believe Allah has commanded them to exterminate all non-muslims and the more they kill the greater their reward. Now what was the original SP complaint about christians? Oh yea, that 'christians would be hypicritical about not allowing Islam to take control of our government. Apples and oranges folks. Horse sense...knowwhatimean?? All SP's should get down on their knees right now and thank Darwin that it wasn't muslims that came to this country in the Mayflower but rather christians.If they had, we'd look like Iraq right now. Be glad it wasn't SP athiests, or we'd look like Russia. Because it was christians you can cuss God all day long and not lose your head for it. Try cussing Allah in the middle east and see how long you'd last. Try political rebellion in Russia and see how long you'd last...is anybody getting this??
Posts: 24 | Location: Here | Registered: 21 November 2007
Originally posted by leesley: SP's find it hypocritical for christians to hope that muslims don't take over Washington imposing their religion. How are christians imposing their moral beliefs? At the ballot box. How do muslims impose their beliefs? With a sharp bloody blade. Why do christians try to impose their morals? For the strengthening of the social fabric which results in happy campers and a lesser strain on the government purse.[called horse sense in the old days. where are the horses when you need them]. Why do muslims want to impose their religion on everyone else? They believe Allah has commanded them to exterminate all non-muslims and the more they kill the greater their reward. Now what was the original SP complaint about christians? Oh yea, that 'christians would be hypicritical about not allowing Islam to take control of our government. Apples and oranges folks. Horse sense...knowwhatimean?? All SP's should get down on their knees right now and thank Darwin that it wasn't muslims that came to this country in the Mayflower but rather christians.If they had, we'd look like Iraq right now. Be glad it wasn't SP athiests, or we'd look like Russia. Because it was christians you can cuss God all day long and not lose your head for it. Try cussing Allah in the middle east and see how long you'd last. Try political rebellion in Russia and see how long you'd last...is anybody getting this??
I don't know about the benefits of christians settling N. America. Christian morals gave us slavery...Christian scripture was used to justify it.
The Native populations were nearly exterminated with an imposition of "superior morals" as an excuse...including things like genocide rather than "counting coup".
If the dictates of Matthew 25 were imposed through the collective will of Christians as government, high government expenditures would be utilized to tend the sick, feed the hungry, and shelter the homeless.
Perhaps it would have been better to have been settled by Bhuddhists. The same injuctions to not harm ones neighbor and no religious justifications to enslave or kill them because they were somehow inferior.
Muslims/Christians share a lot of similarities. Both trace their roots back to Abraham. Muslims accept the Christian Bible, albeit with a differing interpretation on the role of Christ. When has a forced imposition of Christianity not brought with it death and destruction of those opposed to it?
Even the Muslims of Spain...those living peacefully with Christians, were slain or driven out and forced Christian values were at the root.
Christian values often have nothing to do with Christian values...they have been interpreted thoughout history to use barbaric means to impose them. Christians today use the voting booth to deny medical care to the "least among you" rather than to bring about a Christian value...indeed, a command to tend the sick. Christianity, hypocracy and destruction of weaker societies are interchangeable descriptions.
Retired Monk "Ideology is a disease"
Posts: 3412 | Location: denver co | Registered: 17 April 2007
True christians cannot cannot contain hypocrisy of others, no more than a straight up SP can contain the radical elements in their own camp. Can you concede to that Poly?
Posts: 24 | Location: Here | Registered: 21 November 2007
Originally posted by leesley: True christians cannot cannot contain hypocrisy of others, no more than a straight up SP can contain the radical elements in their own camp. Can you concede to that Poly?
Christians find it difficult to contain their own hypocracy. First, they have to look at themselves rather than their neighbors. Most don't do that.
Any ideology has elements that can be considered radical. Ideologies in themselves are radical in that they are based on premises of "beliefs" rather than actualities.
Its pretty radical to ask someone to follow ideologically based beliefs that fly in the face of what's actually so, isn't it? Yet, people do this everyday.
Many beliefs about capitalism are just as ill-conceived and fictitious as many beliefs about socialism are. An acorn of truth in an ideology doesn't make a full grown tree.
Retired Monk "Ideology is a disease"
Posts: 3412 | Location: denver co | Registered: 17 April 2007
Christians find it difficult to contain their own hypocracy. Shall we start calling you 'Broad-Brush Poly'? When will I ever learn? To try to reason with a 'God hater' is like trying to reason with a chunk of concrete! My fault for even starting.
Posts: 24 | Location: Here | Registered: 21 November 2007
Originally posted by leesley: Christians find it difficult to contain their own hypocracy. Shall we start calling you 'Broad-Brush Poly'? When will I ever learn? To try to reason with a 'God hater' is like trying to reason with a chunk of concrete! My fault for even starting.
I tend to have difficulties with people who create a god in their own image when they try to get me to accept their image. I have no problem with them keeping for themselves any image they so desire as long as no one is harmed.
Love God. Love thy neighbor. Simple.
Remove the plank in your own eye before attempting to remove the splinter in your neighbors. Simple.
Condemn not lest ye be condemned. Simple.
Feed the hungry, tend the sick, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless, provide drink to the thirsty, visit the imprisoned (including those tortured without trial). Simple.
Hatreds, war mongering, repressive conformity? Not simple. They contradict very simple teachings.
A pity Ghandi said, "If I ever saw Christianity practiced, I might convert". He never did.
Retired Monk "Ideology is a disease"
Posts: 3412 | Location: denver co | Registered: 17 April 2007
"If I ever saw Christianity practiced, I might convert".
The same might be said for other nice theories, like communism.
It seems that very few people are able to actually live ideas or ideals. Once people form into large groups or organizations things start to go wrong, and if they gain any power or influence, then they get taken over.
Sue N.
Posts: 4624 | Location: UK | Registered: 16 November 2004
The thing to celebrate, and to laugh about I suppose, against a backdrop of history, is that America is NOT all the way similar to anything before us; it is NOT all the way different than any other government before now, and it's NOT all the way bad-no part of it. We be good.
Posts: 582 | Location: New York City | Registered: 13 February 2007
if you dislike teen sex, take it up with God and neurobiologists.
Teen sex is causing cancer. But then, why should that bother you?
quote:
Feed the hungry, tend the sick, clothe the naked, shelter the homeless, provide drink to the thirsty, visit the imprisoned (including those tortured without trial). Simple.
You forgot to mention the "unborn". Are their lives a threat to you? Do they not have a right to live?
Stop putting your greedy palm out, poly. We all work for what we have. Some are more fortunate than others. That's Life! Your unrealistic expectations that others are to "serve" you is disgusting and NOT American. Our great nation was built by people who prospered by working hard. A nation is NEVER strong by socialized-hand outs. If you want it, work for it!! Simple as that. If you don't want to work for it, go to Cuba. Simple, really. Go someplace else. Real Americans work for what they have and are happy with their lot. Real Americans do not want to be a detriment to society but want to "give back," to be charitable to others less fortunate. Like I said, poly, turn your palm down and stop expecting the nation to pamper you.
Your belly aching stems from Democrats who want you trapped into a 'go no where' system. You're just a number in a voter block to them. Have you noticed that Democrats use other peoples money and NEVER their own for handouts? Once again, it is totally UN-American. Get off it!
* * * * * * * * Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.
Posts: 6275 | Location: Maine | Registered: 31 December 2005
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Thus seems to be current Christian theology.
