The book from 1962, and later 1971, A Clockwork Orange has come to mind. I'm thinking of the values of autonomy and community in making the perceived world fundamentally human. Do we retain such an ability in our modern world?
quote:
Burgess wrote in his later introduction, A Clockwork Orange Resucked, that a creature who can only perform good or evil is 'a clockwork orange—meaning that he has the appearance of an organism lovely with colour and juice, but is in fact only a clockwork toy to be wound up by God or the Devil; or (since this is increasingly replacing both) the almighty state. The Italian title, Un'Arancia Ad Orologeria, was interpreted to refer to a grenade.
In his essay "Clockwork Oranges"², Burgess asserts that 'this title would be appropriate for a story about the application of Pavlovian, or mechanical, laws to an organism which, like a fruit, was capable of colour and sweetness'. This title alludes to the protagonist's negatively conditioned responses to feelings of evil which prevent the exercise of his free will.
--------------------------------------------------------------- "if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got." ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 6804 | Location: usa | Registered: 09 February 2006
... popular culture is hostile to conversation because it values either excessive politeness (which makes for talk that is neither spontaneous or authentic) or, at the other pole, expressions of anger, which are thought by many to be "real" and "manly." To "tell it like it is" is often applauded in our society.
Police states and organizations of zealots are also hostile to conversation - people coming together to talk for mutual learning, exploration of philosophical and political ideas, and for social bonding and enjoyment. After all, people might talk about ideas that oppose the government or the religious institutions
--------------------------------------------------------------- "The hand that erases writes the true thing." ~Meister Eckhart ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 60 | Location: USA | Registered: 01 November 2006
--------------------------------------------------------------- "The hand that erases writes the true thing." ~Meister Eckhart ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 60 | Location: USA | Registered: 01 November 2006
"Americans are not particularly interested in the art of conversation." Instead, they are interested in talk that influences, mainly for business purposes, as evidenced by the continued popularity of Dale Carnegie books and courses.
Such talk is pragmatic more than it is artful. It is not intended to entertain and to explore ideas. Instead, it is a tool to get results rather than a process to stimulate thoughts and feelings and to enjoy.
--------------------------------------------------------------- "The hand that erases writes the true thing." ~Meister Eckhart ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 60 | Location: USA | Registered: 01 November 2006
Interesting musings, Kate. Oddly enough, two places where the art of conversation is still developed is in prison (and jail) and in the army.
In both activities, people have plenty of spare time to talk. That is really the problem with westernized culture, our time has been robbed from us because time is money.
In both prison and the army, the ability to project reliability, loyalty and an understanding of situational status builds strong interpersonal bonds. Being forced together with another person where you do all-night patrols or spend days locked in a cell brings out the minute details of a person's life. Being bored out of your head brings sudden appreciation for the simple stories of someone else's life.
Americans, unfortunately, are much too neurotic to engage in open and flowing conversation, and it starts with a regimented and stultifying educational system.Sometimes I wonder if school was engineered to make us incapable of social intercourse. Oops, I said a bad word...
-- The only time we see the middle of the road is as we run from side to side. R.O.Clark
Posts: 3959 | Location: Santa Fe | Registered: 11 June 2003
Interesting angle on the art of conversation, Gnarly. Where does time come from, for the rest of us hamsters?
--------------------------------------------------------------- "if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got." ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 6804 | Location: usa | Registered: 09 February 2006
Just this last week I had an experience that made me feel the degree to which conversation is so missing in our lives these days.
I go to events at my church on Wednesday night. It's a meal followed by "classes." I have always participated in the classes having to do with ideas. But last Wednesday I was pre-occupied with something and never decided which class to go to. I was invited to a women's knitting circle, and decided to try it out. I realized while there, that the purpose for the knitting circle was much less knitting than a lot more community building.
It's easy to converse when your hands are busy. Many conversations were going on simultaneously, and then something would be brought up that evryone in the room was interested in, and we would all be engaged in the same conversation momentarily. We would go back to smaller groups conversing. It was mostly conversations about each other, and the current events in our lives or our families. But it was a nice experience. It reminded me of the book I had been reading for a while The Secret Life of Bees where a young girl finds a group of women that become her mother; where she is able to feel the nurturing that she had lost when her mother was accidentally killed.
It was very nice. And meanwhile I'm learning how to "knit" a baby's cradle cap.
eley
"Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground"--Sweet Baby James
Posts: 1979 | Location: Texas | Registered: 21 August 2004
That's a beautiful story, about connections. I often listen better when my hands are busy; so, I've gotten very good at taking lecture notes. Any time I'm at a public presentation, I'll get out my little black book, and write down what the speaker is saying. It's been fun to approach whoever later and ask about the piece that didn't get matched up in the lecture.
I don't do that with the pastor's sermons though. I figure I'll give him a bye, when he doesn't add it all up in a neat little package. And, lately, I've been disappointed that the concepts are fewer and further between.
--------------------------------------------------------------- "The hand that erases writes the true thing." ~Meister Eckhart ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 60 | Location: USA | Registered: 01 November 2006
About quizzing the speaker, sometimes it's better to say nothing at all.
**
He did a good job today.
--------------------------------------------------------------- "if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got." ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 6804 | Location: usa | Registered: 09 February 2006
I missed our service--and the ritual that goes with it yesterday--communion. Shucks!
About "sometimes its better to say nothing at all." Yes! But I'm never sure when that time is. I usually know afterwards though.
I wrote a pointed letter to the editor that got published recently. Many people complemented me on it, but two--my mother and a friend. I'm now afraid that relationships I've been fundamental in building here to get leway into the political power system for our grass roots organization might be compromised. I hope not. Don't know. Will see. Oops!
eley
"Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground"--Sweet Baby James
Posts: 1979 | Location: Texas | Registered: 21 August 2004
Yep. Sometimes ... we can't be all the things our parents and our friends prefer.
I've disappointed my own mother a few times, but then it was nice to see her noticing what I was up to, I guess. Hah! My son often will quip that I should have had more children, so it would take the pressure off him.
Social fabric. Knitting. That was clever, Gnarly. The idea of any kind of sewing circle is simply lovely. Really is. I've got one in my church, but it meets during the work day. When things let up, I'll find some time for it. Back when the kid was small, and when I wasn't putting him in Sunday school at 3 years old, but sleeping in and reading the newspaper and doing a whole bunch of other things, *my* mother told me I should join a church, because of the whole set of new people I would know and so on.
I didn't listen to her for a long time, and then when I chose to get involved, it wasn't really for me, but for the kid (who wanted to join a church), and then I found out what she was talking about, again. Odd how that worked out.
Anyway, g'night.
Kate
--------------------------------------------------------------- "if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got." ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 6804 | Location: usa | Registered: 09 February 2006
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Oops!
