Most 'Liberals' profess themselves to be "progressive" but yet many tend to not embrace what I'm convinced are truely progressive philosophies or moral values and ethical principles. Look pobody is nerfect, and I'll be the first to avow myself of this, but there has to be honesty in order to have a discussion.
I define progressive (in the context of this discussion) as someone who is broad-minded and as one who favors or promotes reform or the advancement of a forward-leaning / moving ideology of new ideas or methods which is wider in scope than the conventional, ideologically accepted paradigm (ie., a philosophy which includes, but is not limited to bolstering or supporting better conditions for all individuals, staunch protection of civil liberties, the idea that one's faith shouldn't trump compassion or just treatment of others, the sustainability of nature for selfless ends, and peace (adhering honestly to non-violent solutions whenever possible) to name a few. A progressive would not be bound by orthodoxy, authoritarianism, or tradition.
It would give far more credibility to self-proclaiming 'Liberals' to not view non-humans as property or objects, but to respect them as individuals who deserve consideration which allows their fundamental interests to be lived out naturally without undue interference or impedance by humans looking to exploit or dominate them for their own interests.
That said, how many here are ethical vegetarians or look to give up their cultural addiction to consuming animals' body parts? On the other hand, how many look to rationalize their dietary habit with a less than open mind?
"The animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for white, or women created for men." -- Alice Walker
Posts: 98 | Location: New York City | Registered: 10 March 2006
I knew there had to be an agenda in there somewhere, and sure enough you spilled your guts (pardon the gruesome pun) in the last paragraph. Maybe you are the idiot who called Thom's show a few days ago ranting about "Liberals" who are not avowed vegetarians. In any case, us liberals would appreciate it if you extremists would stop trying to insinuate us into your narrow definition of "Liberal". There is one dodo bird here who goes around preaching that in order to be a "true" liberal you have to blame Israel for all the world's evils. There are others with equally bizzarre agendas. Most of us see right through it.
-- The only time we see the middle of the road is as we run from side to side. R.O.Clark
Posts: 3959 | Location: Santa Fe | Registered: 11 June 2003
I've never called into Thom's show as you've insinuated.
Concurrently, you don't speak for liberals....in fact, from the little that I've read of your pugnacious, antagonistic blather in your posts, you can hardly call yourself a liberal with complete honesty. You remind me terribly of Mark Levin in your behavior and apparent ideological and intelectual self-limitation.
To many during their respective time, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr's and Elizabeth Cady Stanton's views were extreme. Simply because you embrace an accutely narrow view and your perspective leans towards orthodox conservatism, doesn't in any way, shape, or form mean that widening one's circle of compassion or equality is not truely progressive. In fact, the consideration of respect for all individuals is not really that extreme at all to anyone who's been mentally alive in the West for the past several decades.
I'm convinced from reading the drivel that you write, that you routinely project all sorts of inaccurate assumptions about others whom you simply disagree with.
I'd strongly encourage you to let go of your orthodox conventionalistic views at some point in your life....not lockstepping with the most popular beliefs today is not as unsafe and scarey as you believe it to be. Please don't misunderstand me...I'm not saying that because you self-limit your perspective that you are evil, I'm just saying that today, it is, with virtually no exception, the orthodox right wing conservatives who ideologically believe that only select individuals deserve considerations for their fundamental interests, and that progressive ideology cannot be mired in conservative orthodox ideology. I don't mind that you refer to yourself as a moderate or conservative....at least you are being honest then, and I have plenty of friends who are moderates and conservatives....nearly as many as I have who are true progressives. That doesn't necessarily make you evil.
"The animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for white, or women created for men." -- Alice Walker
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Posts: 98 | Location: New York City | Registered: 10 March 2006
The progressive agenda is about accepting others even with their differences, and weaknesses. Read Lakeoff's "Don't Think of an Elephant". He suggests finding wherever a person agrees in nutruring ideas and building a colition from there. My signature is based on that. Renuable energy is becoming almost universally acceptable,my strategy start talking that and build on it, and it seems to be working.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the American people."
PT Barnum
Posts: 1148 | Location: Repentant States of America | Registered: 28 November 2003
what a bunch of drivel, if you want to eat tofu and veggies then thats your business, if others want to eat meat then that is thier business. Quit trying to impose your will on others juat because it makes you feel morally superior.
Posts: 345 | Location: Colton | Registered: 18 February 2006
You're not. I'm jsut pointing out to everybody what it REALLY is you came here to do: to disrupt each and every meaningful conversation you can lay your claws on.
My family fought the nazi's while you euro trash hide in your basements as they carted off your jewish neighbors, dont call me a nazi, I spent 26 years fighting facist all over to globe while you sat around in school self indulging
Posts: 345 | Location: Colton | Registered: 18 February 2006
Now, if you have a problem with ME, that's just too damn bad.
Taste of your own medicine, trollboy.
Piece of advice: if you are intent on pursueing a career in trolling, you will need to learn to be less jumpy. I got to you on the third try, that's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too easy.
well, I DID manage to get under your skin in, what? 2 minutes?
Yeah, I think I understand you perfectly. All you fascists are the same: hold up the mirror, and you lash out. No matter to whom, no matter with what. Just as long as you don't have you look yourself in the eye.
Either that, or you're just an ordinary troll, out to disrupt any meaningful discussion you come across.
I apoligize for my out burst, Miles and I just dont understant each other thats all.
No apologies needed, Asta, as far as I'm concerned. If it's understanding you seek perhaps there are more useful concepts than the concept of 'attack and counter-attack'? Just my 2 cts
Posts: 1927 | Location: pending | Registered: 18 December 2004
It would give far more credibility to self-proclaiming 'Liberals' to not view non-humans as property or objects, but to respect them as individuals who deserve consideration which allows their fundamental interests to be lived out naturally without undue interference or impedance by humans looking to exploit or dominate them for their own interests.
Posts: 1927 | Location: pending | Registered: 18 December 2004
If it's understanding you seek perhaps there are more useful concepts than the concept of 'attack and counter-attack'? Just my 2 cts Smiler
I dont care if Miles understands me or not, i feel the same about him as he does me, but you are absolutly right, this is rather counter productive and tiersome
Posts: 345 | Location: Colton | Registered: 18 February 2006
Miles, this board is so much more entertaining to read when different opinions and perspectives are presented. A while back, Ronald, Loganthor and I didn't post much and there were no Astaroth's or Thekos's posting. The board was dull, lifeless and traffic to it in general slowed to a snails pace.
Even if conservatives only puropse is serve as a foil so the liberals can sharpen their misconceptions they are useful.
I don't understand your one man campaign to screw up the board. Could you explain it to me?
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
Just ONE 'opinion' or 'perspective'; of course, a non substantiated yell does not count. Nor does a one liner that is not on request accompanied by an explanation. An 'opinion' or 'perspective' should come with substance.
Go!
Oh, to help you on your way even further: these people are welcome here to join and say any damn thing they please. No ban policy.
Well, my friend, if THEY are allowed to do so, that means so am I. As long as these assholes are not only allowed to spam us but on top of that are encouraged to do so, I will take advantage of that same privilege, thank you very much, and I don't see any way you or anybody else besides or host can do anything about that. Sorry. If they are allowed to troll, so am I; it just happens to be that I'm BETTER at it. Basically because I'm more intelligent than these people combined, and then some.
If you don't like that, I suggest you apply your now double standard to you troll buddies as well. Only THEN will we truly have something to discuss in regards to the current subject.
Originally posted by ironee: I do not know how many self-described liberals/progressives rationalize their meat-eating behavior as acceptable - but I do.
Perhaps you are not a hypocrite if you don't consider yourself a progressive....my initial statement doesn't address non-progressive like you appear to be.
quote:
The progressive agenda is about accepting others even with their differences
I have read Lakoff's, "Don't Think Of An Elephant" a couple of years back. I believe (if my memory serves me right) that Lakoff was referring to "Liberals" in his opinions about how people ought to frame their ideologies and values. The book certainly is a great read, and I'd recommend it to everyone to read, but I don't believe that Lakoff insinuated that anyone (Liberal or not) should be accepting of every behavior that anyone exhibits, including the subjugation of others, the molestation of children, the enslavement of non-Whites,
