How did Goldberg get stuck with the unenviable task of trying to be irreverent about Woodrow Wilson? Because the Kennedys and FDR are played out. Christopher Hitchens has already done Mother Teresa and Ann Coulter cashed in on re-evaluating the last polarizing historical figure a few living people could actually pick out of a police line-up, Joseph McCarthy.
(One advantage Goldberg has over Coulter? His tits are real.)
Blaise Pascal Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. Pensees
Posts: 2917 | Location: Sverige | Registered: 21 June 2005
I wonder if Mr. Kelly even read the book, he does not even discuss it, it’s just a completely sophomoric personal attack. Must be some reason the Left is afraid of this author. Thanks doug I’ll have to get me a copy.
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Winston Churchill
Posts: 623 | Location: lefortovo | Registered: 09 February 2006
I read an excerpt in National Review. Very intriguing. Modern Progressives have much in common with Hitler's Germany: fierce anti-corporatism, secularism, a pre-occupation with environmentalism, racial preferences, indoctrination of youth, and much more.
I'm still on the fence about the thesis, but I will read the book. Will Kelly? Will Thom?
Posts: 1807 | Location: West Michigan | Registered: 23 June 2005
I saw the interview with Goldberg and Hartmann on hartman.com. I've got to say that Goldberg made sense to me and Thom's attempt to counter it was more an attempt at distraction than actually confronting the ideas that Goldberg was putting forward, which the collectivism that the left strives for in nearly every part of our society is killing the independant American spirit that made the country what is is.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
fierce anti-corporatism, secularism, a pre-occupation with environmentalism
Hitler was an environmentalist?, the fascism they adopted was a state corp partnership. Was Teddy Roosevelt anti-corporate? [Anti-trust is not anti corporate, just gives consumers, or people, more power, more choice--in products they consume, politicians are consumables lately] The only reason there is anti-corporatism is because it squelches representative government, which used to be important. The Nazis also were not secular, they claimed to be doing Christian work--helped to get even with those killers of Jesus. I have not read it, will look for revues, but it sounds like quackery, or holocaust denier nonsense. Early Goldberg, haven't found enough reviews yet, to balance my pre-opinion, but the link shows he does compare well with Coulter, except he's wittier, though just as crude..I didn't know all the worlds problems are because of the french [Jerry Lewis notwithstanding]
This message has been edited. Last edited by: douglaslee,
Blaise Pascal Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. Pensees
Posts: 2917 | Location: Sverige | Registered: 21 June 2005
The Nazis also were not secular, they claimed to be doing Christian work-
They also claimed to be socialist's, so, were they? They claimed a lot of things but we can only judge them by their actions. Did they persecute christians?
quote:
Although far less hostile to Christianity than to Judaism, which the Nazis sought to exterminate throughout the Third Reich and lands that came under Nazi rule, Nazi totalitarianism demanded that all religious activity conform to the desires of Nazi leadership. Christian churches were obliged to accept the racist doctrines of Nazism. The Gestapo monitored Christian clergy and congregations for any semblance of dissent with Nazi policies, and many Christian clergy and laymen ended up in concentration camps when they asserted opposition to the teachings and practices of Nazism or if they acted upon pacifist convictions (like many Jehovah's Witnesses and some Confessing Church members). During the early part of the Nazi rule, the "German Christians" were an important pseudo-Protestant tool of the regime to bring about the Gleichschaltung of the churches.
The expansion of Nazi Germany and the establishment of Nazi rule in occupied countries brought about persecutions ranging from those characteristic in Germany itself to conditions approaching those of the Soviet Union. Catholic priests in Poland that were opposed to the Nazis were taken to the concentration camps; about 3,000 catholic priests were murdered in the liquidation of the Polish intelligentsia. Due to its long historical association with Slavic cultures, Nazi occupation officials used collaborators such as the Roman Catholic Ustashe to specifically target Eastern Orthodox Christians in Yugoslavia. Roman Catholics were heavily persecuted in Nazi Germany because of their opposing views on Nazi eugenics and racial hatred.
Simply stating The nazi’s also were not secular does not mean zip. Their actions prove otherwise.
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Winston Churchill
Posts: 623 | Location: lefortovo | Registered: 09 February 2006
Hitler is quoted in MeinKampf of doing the lord's work--btw I'm a secularist.. big time. It became a four letter word on fox, or O'Riley. If Hitler kept referring to his Christianity, and life after death, and the Christian thing about as long as it's for Christ the law doesn't matter, maybe the Nazis were secular, but Hitler wasn't. Found a review on NY Times sunday..it's a good site of reviews back to 1981, link soon, but this from Linda Trip's agent's son
quote:
Goldberg acknowledges that Wilson and Roosevelt faced legitimate national emergencies — a world war and an economic collapse. But subsequent presidents have invented false crises to roil the masses, he claims, and John F. Kennedy did it best. “It is not a joyful thing to impugn an American hero and icon with the label fascist,” Goldberg writes, but how else does one explain his popularity? The answer lies not in Kennedy’s record, which Goldberg assures us was slim, but rather in his cold-war brinkmanship, his “adrenaline-soaked” appeals to national service and martial values, and, of course, the Nazi-like cult of personality that he buffed to gleaming perfection.
Is something missing here? Goldberg races from Wilson to Roosevelt to Kennedy and on to Bill Clinton with barely a glance at what happened in between. The reason is simple: for Goldberg, fascism is strictly a Democratic disease. This allows him to dispose of the politics of the 1920s in a single sentence. “After the Great War,” he writes, “the country slowly regained its sanity.” What Goldberg may not know — or is afraid to tell us — is that the 1920s were anything but sane. This was the decade, after all, that contained the largest state-sponsored social experiment in the nation’s history — Prohibition — and it lasted through three Republican administrations before Franklin Roosevelt ended it in 1933. The 1920s also saw the explosive spread of the Ku Klux Klan in the Republican Midwest, a virtual halt to legal immigration under the repressive National Origins Act and an angry grass-roots backlash against the teaching of evolution in public schools.
Goldberg briefly enters the Eisenhower 1950s to tease liberals for whining about the supposedly trivial impact of McCarthyism. “A few Hollywood writers who’d supported Stalin and then lied about it lost their jobs,” he says. What’s the big deal? For the Reagan 1980s there is near-silence — hardly a word. I had entertained the slim hope that Goldberg might consider the “fascist” cult of personality surrounding Reagan’s 1984 “Morning in America” hokum (“Prouder, Stronger, Better”). But, alas, such scrutiny is reserved only for the Clinton presidential campaign of 1992, with its “Riefenstahlesque film of a teenage Bill Clinton shaking hands with President Kennedy.” Indeed, even George W. Bush’s spectacularly staged landing on an aircraft carrier in full battle regalia to declare “mission accomplished” in Iraq escapes notice here. It doesn’t take a village for Goldberg to play the fascist card; a single Democrat will do.
The final chapters of “Liberal Fascism” are a rant, often deliciously amusing, against America’s numerous liberal-fascist elites. In unexciting times, when there are no calamities to be addressed, liberals push a more robust social agenda, Goldberg claims, using the state and the friendly news media to tar opponents of, say, affirmative action or same-sex marriage as bigots, fanatics and fools. The task facing conservatives, he adds, is to hold liberals accountable for these jackboot tactics. “For at some point,” Goldberg writes, “it is necessary to throw down the gauntlet, to draw a line in the sand, to set a boundary, to cry at long last, ‘Enough is enough.’”
These are familiar words, eerily reminiscent of the “adrelaline-soaked” clichés of John F. Kennedy as he railed against Soviet expansion around the globe. But I dare not call them fascist. That would be unfair.
David Oshinsky, who holds the Jack S. Blanton chair in history at the University of Texas, is the author of “A Conspiracy So Immense: The World of Joe McCarthy.”
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
I don’t care if Hitler was quoted in Mein Kampf claiming to be a christian or a muslim or a flower child. His actions certainly were not christian. Is it a requirement of secularist’s to hate christians?
History has made secularism a four letter word. Stalin & Lenin banned Christmas, also Vietnam banned children from singing Silent Night. Cuba banned Christmas also. I realize that you are full of hatred for all things christian doug, but this is truly grasping at straws. You want Hitler to be a christian because of this hatred and Hitler was scum. Stalin ,Lenin, Mao were also murdering scum, but they were beyond a doubt secularist
quote:
In 1941, Martin Bormann, a close associate of Hitler said publicly "National Socialism and Christianity are irreconcilable" In 1942 he also declared in a confidential memo to Gauleiters that the Christian Churches 'must absolutely and finally be broken.' Thus, it is evident that he believed Nazism, based as it was on a 'scientific' world-view, to be completely incompatible with Christianity
Hitler even went as far as creating his own church, the National Reich Church;
# The National Reich Church claims exclusive right and control over all Churches. # The National Church is determined to exterminate foreign Christian faiths imported into Germany in the ill omened year 800. # The National Church demands immediate cessation of the publishing and dissemination of the Bible. # The National Church will clear away from its alters all crucifixes, Bibles and pictures of saints. # On the altars there must be nothing but Mein Kampf and to the left of the altar a sword
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries. Winston Churchill
Posts: 623 | Location: lefortovo | Registered: 09 February 2006
I realize that you are full of hatred for all things christian doug,
You realize? You realize wrong, I was an alter boy, lived on the same street as our pastor. Secular just means a respect and recognition of Constitutional law, (that means state's laws too inspite of scalia and gang] first, and above biblical law. And some SCOTUS justices recognize that and rule in accordance, some don't. A search of the justices's faiths and their rulings shows the Jewish Justices the best, the Catholic the worst. Scalia is a fine catholic, he's just a catholic first, a judge second. A secular doesn't break the laws of the land because he's born again and it's allowed. They also don't seek to be raptured. Is there a queue protocol for the rapture line? Who gets to go first, the loudest, Reagan, Bush..Carter is Baptist, Gore studied for the clergy, didn't break the law though, Reagan did a little genocide, Bush trying the same [preferably Muslims], international law doesn't matter, 'cause God chose him. Seculars don't give god a vote in representative democracy, or republics.
quote:
Religious beliefs
Main articles: Adolf Hitler's religious beliefs and Nazi Mysticism
Hitler was raised by Roman Catholic parents, but as a boy he rejected some aspects of Catholicism. After Hitler left home, he never attended Mass or received the sacraments,[82] although Hitler did state, "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so," to Gen. Gerhard Engel in 1941.
Throughout his life, Hitler often praised Christian heritage, German Christian culture, and a belief in Jesus Christ.[83] In his speeches and publications Hitler even spoke of Christianity as a central motivation for his antisemitism, stating that "As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice".[84][85] His private statements, as reported by his intimates, are more mixed, showing Hitler as a religious man but critical of traditional Christianity.[86] However, in contrast to other Nazi leaders, Hitler did not adhere to esoteric ideas, occultism, or neo-paganism,[86] and ridiculed such beliefs in Mein Kampf.[87] Rather, Hitler advocated a "Positive Christianity",[88] a belief system purged from what he objected to in traditional Christianity, and which reinvented Jesus as a fighter against the Jews.
Hitler believed in Arthur de Gobineau's ideas of struggle for survival between the different races, among which the "Aryan race"—guided by "Providence"—was supposed to be the torchbearers of civilization. In Hitler's conception Jews were enemies of all civilization.
Among Christian denominations, Hitler favoured Protestantism, which was more open to such reinterpretations. At the same time, he adopted some elements of the Catholic Church's hierarchical organization, liturgy and phraseology in his politics.[89][90]
Hitler expressed admiration for the Muslim military tradition. According to one confidant, Hitler stated in private "The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness...".[91]
Kulak:I don’t care if Hitler was quoted in MeinKampf claiming to be a Christian or a Muslim or a flower child. His actions certainly were not Christian.
No they weren't, not at all. are Bush's?, were Reagan's? To judge Christianity by actions, you'd have to run a spreadsheet including Salem witch trials, other puritanical sufferings imposed on the people, then that little inquisition thing in Spain, and the excommunications of great scientists, and jailing and trials of others, Dayton, TN comes to mind. Actions may speak louder than words, it's sometimes called hypocrisy.
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Blaise Pascal Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. Pensees
Posts: 2917 | Location: Sverige | Registered: 21 June 2005
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