I've been thinking about memory. And more specifically, memories.
Where does it (do they) come from? And go to? Is memory tied to word, and if so is it stronger as a written or an oral tradition? It seems like memories of feelings and senses are tied in somehow.
Just thoughts, but I don't think they're memories.
--------------------------------------------------------------- "if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got." ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 6804 | Location: usa | Registered: 09 February 2006
--------------------------------------------------------------- "if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got." ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 6804 | Location: usa | Registered: 09 February 2006
Hi Kate, Excellent question something to put in the "memory bank" for later contemplation. My mom died 2 years ago after a many year battle with Alzheimer's Disease so it is so hard to fathom. My mother was no longer the person I knew my entire life, in her final years. So, is it memories in fact that define us and make us the people we are? Lot's of possibilities here for discussion. Good one d
Posts: 231 | Location: MA | Registered: 26 June 2006
Alzheimer's puts a whole nother perspective on the question of memory, deni.
For me, in an odd way, that disease was an opened door, to a deep friendship with my grandmother. I didn't know her as a person until my grandfather succumbed to Alzheimer's and she developed into a complete person, almost right before my eyes. Before her husband became ill, she was in his shadow and spoke his thoughts, or not too many others. She had a little over 20 years on her own after that, and lived well.
She died early this fall, after the last bit of summer, and I miss her, but my memory of the feeling and the loss is being replaced by other realities. I'm remembering how dear it was to be totally immersed in my grief, and I don't remember when the intensity of that emotion faded, but it did.
Part of the transition was putting lots of things that were hers, near me. So, in a sense, the artifacts are a part of the memory, but they aren't all of it.
--------------------------------------------------------------- "if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got." ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 6804 | Location: usa | Registered: 09 February 2006
I like to mark memories, btw. So, I figured it was about time to break out a new Kate.
--------------------------------------------------------------- "The hand that erases writes the true thing." ~Meister Eckhart ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 60 | Location: USA | Registered: 01 November 2006
The fruit avatar is nice. What does it "remind" me of?
--------------------------------------------------------------- "The hand that erases writes the true thing." ~Meister Eckhart ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 60 | Location: USA | Registered: 01 November 2006
Kate, do you think it is possible for memories to change or evolve as we grow and add new information to our perceptions about the world?
Like, can something that was a mundane memory take on a quality of becoming more profound when more is learned about that memory, or a powerfully negative emotionally charged memory can it loose it's power when previously unrealized information is found providing intellectual perspective that shows it wasn't really a negative experience?
Sorry if I'm sounding loopy, I don't know where you are in the "USA" but here it's 12:30am and I haven't yet adjusted to the return of Standard Time so I'm off to bed and hopefully be clearer in the AM. d
Posts: 231 | Location: MA | Registered: 26 June 2006
"do you think it is possible for memories to change or evolve as we grow and add new information to our perceptions about the world?"
i think so. as time goes by you gain appreciation for some memories, like ones that involve a loved one you lost. but my favorite memories are my fishing ones. every fishing trip with family, friends, or girlfriends are ones i wouldnt trade for anytihng else. plus i really like catching fish
------------------------------------------ debating conservatives is easy. so easy, even a caveman can do it!
"if this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck lot easier, just so long as im the dictator" -GWB Dec 18,2002
Posts: 1614 | Location: ft myers florida area | Registered: 23 September 2006
Very powerful statements, deni. I'm unpacking them to take a look; cogitate; come back with something that might meet that amazing bar you set. In short, I think you're onto something:
quote:
something that was a mundane memory take on a quality of becoming more profound
when more is learned about that memory
and
quote:
a powerfully negative emotionally charged memory can it loose its power when
previously unrealized information is found
providing intellectual perspective that shows it wasn't really a negative experience
ftmyers,
You're serious about that fishing then. Is it because of the alone time, or the together time, that you remember the fishing trips fondly?
--------------------------------------------------------------- "The hand that erases writes the true thing." ~Meister Eckhart ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 60 | Location: USA | Registered: 01 November 2006
“Never forget that only dead fish swim with the stream.” – Malcolm Muggeridge
--------------------------------------------------------------- "The hand that erases writes the true thing." ~Meister Eckhart ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 60 | Location: USA | Registered: 01 November 2006
--------------------------------------------------------------- "The hand that erases writes the true thing." ~Meister Eckhart ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 60 | Location: USA | Registered: 01 November 2006
You are so awesome. I imagine you have very rich memories if they are tied to feelings and senses because you seem to be such a complete person, incredibly in touch with your feelings and senses. I truly look up to you. Thanks for this thread.
eley
"Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground"--Sweet Baby James
Posts: 1979 | Location: Texas | Registered: 21 August 2004
You're serious about that fishing then. Is it because of the alone time, or the together time, that you remember the fishing trips fondly?
actually both. fishing alone in a nice quiet bay gives you time to reflect on things that in your normal routine of a life you might not have time for. fishing with people is also great cause you remember the conversations with that person, plus what they caught (or didnt catch).
------------------------------------------ debating conservatives is easy. so easy, even a caveman can do it!
"if this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck lot easier, just so long as im the dictator" -GWB Dec 18,2002
Posts: 1614 | Location: ft myers florida area | Registered: 23 September 2006
actually both. fishing alone in a nice quiet bay gives you time to reflect on things that in your normal routine of a life you might not have time for. fishing with people is also great cause you remember the conversations with that person, plus what they caught (or didnt catch).
I used to catch fish, after finding the bait, and baiting the hook, and then after I caught the fish I'd clean it. Now, I get my fish at the market, and wonder if it's safe to eat.
(ft myers, If you put a line across the top of your signature line it would be easier to see where your message ends and your signature line begins)
--------------------------------------------------------------- "if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got." ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 6804 | Location: usa | Registered: 09 February 2006
I believe it's still possible to make a human connection. And you remind me of why that's true.
--------------------------------------------------------------- "if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got." ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 6804 | Location: usa | Registered: 09 February 2006
Originally posted by --Kate: I've been thinking about memory. And more specifically, memories.
Where does it (do they) come from? And go to? Is memory tied to word, and if so is it stronger as a written or an oral tradition? It seems like memories of feelings and senses are tied in somehow.
Just thoughts, but I don't think they're memories.
What amazes me about memories, is that right out of the blue you might remember something you haven't thought of in 40 years (if you're older than that of course). It might be something you read that triggered it, or a smell, or a song, or the way someone walks or looks--anything!
Posts: 1741 | Location: Florida | Registered: 19 March 2006
do you think it is possible for memories to change or evolve as we grow and add new information to our perceptions about the world?
Not only is it possible, it presents a real problem in criminal investigations where a witness who is shown a photo of a face can identify that one as the perpetrator rather than the one actually seen.
Memory isn't a static record like a photograph or a book, but a bunch of pieces spread throughout the brain and reassembled. These pieces can belong to other memories (or assemblies,) parts can be removed, new parts added.
In NLP there are methods for deliberately altering memories.
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Posts: 861 | Location: Over Here | Registered: 06 July 2002
Yep, I found it: an NLP newsletter that discusses the possibilities, without the particulars:
quote:
NLP works most directly with the "working memory" to create changes in "long term memory"
quote:
What is memory? How does memory work? How can we gain insights into NLP re-imprinting, change personal history, phobia fixes, family systems work and other NLP change processes, by learning about memory?
Modern Brain research tells us that we have different sorts of memory functions, based in different centers in the brain. Besides the well known "short-term" and "long-term" memory, there is also the "sensory register", which fuels short-term memory and "working memory", which is important in turning short-term memory into organized long-term memory and for retrieving that memory so it's available again in the present moment. We engage working memory when doing NLP change-work. It is the "handle on the screwdriver" so to speak, that gives us access to the deeper belief structures and their supporting V's and A's and K's.
Just as an individual's "map of reality" is rich and distinctive with unique parts, one's long-term memory is composed of many functionally different types of memory. "Semantic memory" stores context-free verbal facts. "Episodic memory" is highly context rich and what we typically think of as "memory". In reality, this is a sort of "Reader's Digest" version of experience and our conscious brain fills in the rest. (Remember "delete", "distort" and "generalize" from NLP?)
NLP offers an elegant set of principles, physiology calibration and other tools with which to reach into and appreciate a person's map and then fine-tune the visual, auditory and kinesthetic (and olfactory, gustatory) representations that make up a person's memories and unique maps of reality.
The change produced with NLP interventions is like a "software update" to the whole system. Parts of the psyche and personality that were previously occupied in an unworkable struggle to preserve some primitive, fundamental world view are now available for a higher level of creative functioning. You can literally change your life.
--------------------------------------------------------------- "The hand that erases writes the true thing." ~Meister Eckhart ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 60 | Location: USA | Registered: 01 November 2006
What amazes me about memories, is that right out of the blue you might remember something you haven't thought of in 40 years (if you're older than that of course). It might be something you read that triggered it, or a smell, or a song, or the way someone walks or looks--anything!
Marcel Proust picks up that kind of memory, as one of his themes in In Search of Lost Time (a.k.a. Remembrance of Things Past). I've not gotten all the way through that enormous collection of insights into the human condition, but I remember a scene where he was describing, I think it was an orange scent, at his aunt's house, and how that sense-memory revived all other kinds of memories.
I suppose NLP is not entirely successful at deleting the sensory memories, and the factual memories that go with them.
--------------------------------------------------------------- "The hand that erases writes the true thing." ~Meister Eckhart ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 60 | Location: USA | Registered: 01 November 2006
I suppose NLP is not entirely successful at deleting the sensory memories, and the factual memories that go with them.
A major part of the techniques "submodalities" is about manipulating sensory memory.
You can add stuff, remove stuff, turn up or down the intensity of images, even disconnect the emotional component while keeping the audio/visual.
Most useful is changing the connections between things from something that promotes limiting behavior to something that promotes useful behavior. This alters the usual stimulus-response pattern we often fall into by creating a new one.
One doesn't usually want to delete a memory, since we have them for a reason, only alter it sufficiently to promote useful results.
The Phobia Cure for example doesn't eliminate memories of the trigger, it just disassociates the feeling component.
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Posts: 861 | Location: Over Here | Registered: 06 July 2002
But it's impossible (isn't it?) to harness all the sensory memories, and channel them into the NLP programmer's purposes.
Of course, lurking behind the helpfulness of the "technique" is the harmful and manipulative "other" decision-making about what's best for the programmee.
I suppose NLP ethics would be an interesting google search.
--------------------------------------------------------------- "The hand that erases writes the true thing." ~Meister Eckhart ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 60 | Location: USA | Registered: 01 November 2006
But it's impossible (isn't it?) to harness all the sensory memories, and channel them into the NLP programmer's purposes.
There are limitations to the techniques and it is something of an art - skill + intuition - just like everything else in life so operations can be unsuccessful.
Still, one sometimes only needs one memory to work with to have success. This can have something to do with logical levels which generalizes specific memories.
Also, i believe similar memories use many of the same components, so if you alter a sufficient number of components, that generalizes to all similar experiences, if the subject stores the components together that way.
quote:
Of course, lurking behind the helpfulness of the "technique" is the harmful and manipulative "other" decision-making about what's best for the programmee.
In personal change work, the operator has no knowledge, or should or need have, of the content so there is no 'what's best'. The subject is in control. This is the only place i am aware of where personal memories can be altered. It is close up work and needs a lot of feedback.
While group presenters can and do adjust the mood of an audience, that is partly aided by the tacit permission they give by being in the audience. It's not as intricate or critical as change work so it's not as important to an audience member to give up a little control as it is for a subject looking for personal change.
quote:
I suppose NLP ethics would be an interesting google search.
Keep in mind that NLP claims are somewhat hyperbolic and that they don't represent anything that people don't already do. Like any other human endeavor NLP takes skill and aptitude and very few people become experts at it. This limits its effectiveness to a handful of people who are going to be effective with or without NLP.
Take hypnosis, which is a good part of NLP. It's been around a long time yet the human race isn't a bunch of mind controlled zombies. People are naturally suggestible and easily put themselves into hypnotic states, while there are others who would make use of that, like advertisers. But since there is so much competition for our attention a resultant purchase could hardly be called mind control. Anyway, normal everday conversation involves the elements of hypnosis (suggestibility, and yes, trance states,) it just lacks the drama.
NLP can be very effective but it requires cooperation, or in the broadest application at least inattention.
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Posts: 861 | Location: Over Here | Registered: 06 July 2002
In personal change work, the operator has no knowledge, or should or need have, of the content so there is no 'what's best'. The subject is in control. This is the only place i am aware of where personal memories can be altered. It is close up work and needs a lot of feedback.
The subject is in control. Okay. Why does NLP refer to the "recipient" of NLP change as a "subject"? That word sounds decidedly not in control to me.
quote:
quote: "I suppose NLP ethics would be an interesting google search."
Keep in mind that NLP claims are somewhat hyperbolic and that they don't represent anything that people don't already do. Like any other human endeavor NLP takes skill and aptitude and very few people become experts at it. This limits its effectiveness to a handful of people who are going to be effective with or without NLP.
The hype aspect of marketing the outcomes of NLP, for the few, which the consumer interprets as "to me" causes me to remember routine business transactions, with realtors or car salesmen, or even sellers of time-shares in vacation communities. In those three scenarios, a certain bit of puffing is accepted by the hard business reality that the seller is entitled to engage in hyperbole to sell the product. But, when the illusion created in the hard-sell part of the transaction is remembered later by the consumer, when things "are" not as they "seemed", the onus is on the consumer under the principle of caveat emptor.
I remember being viscerally irritated by the hard sell of a "free vacation is a beautiful condo" group, having to work real hard to actually sleep in a condo (instead of a two-bed motel room walk-up), and then being curious about whether others had been similarly annoyed and somehow sued the outfit. All the material I could find was the other way around; the outfit sued the consumers when they defaulted on their loans for the worthless bit of time-share they purchased at at astronomical price, with an astronomical interest rate.
I see in your following words an assessment of why those consumers got themselves in the fix:
quote:
People are naturally suggestible and easily put themselves into hypnotic states, while there are others who would make use of that, like advertisers. But since there is so much competition for our attention a resultant purchase could hardly be called mind control.
***
quote:
Anyway, normal everday conversation involves the elements of hypnosis (suggestibility, and yes, trance states,) it just lacks the drama.
And about that drama ... I guess that's where the "feeling" part of memory comes in.
***
quote:
NLP can be very effective but it requires cooperation, or in the broadest application at least inattention.
And then, I say I say, "effective" at what?
--------------------------------------------------------------- "The hand that erases writes the true thing." ~Meister Eckhart ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 60 | Location: USA | Registered: 01 November 2006
or in the broadest application at least inattention.
Here's the last part of your post, ric. I found it mildly amusing. Inattentive to what?
--------------------------------------------------------------- "The hand that erases writes the true thing." ~Meister Eckhart ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 60 | Location: USA | Registered: 01 November 2006
The subject is in control. Okay. Why does NLP refer to the "recipient" of NLP change as a "subject"? That word sounds decidedly not in control to me.
Errr, wasn't sure why i chose that particular word, but checked it out in the course material and found that the exercises used the terms operator and subject and sometimes coach if a third person was involved.
In business the subject is called the client. Keep in mind that the idea of control here is in a theraputic setting.
Otherwise it is a matter of the subject cooperating with the operator, more on that later in 'inattention'.
Effectiveness has to do with achieving the set outcomes. NLP tries to be precise in that matter by setting specific outcomes and testing during and afreward to see if they were achieved.
As you can guess, testing is more readily done in a one on one scenario than in a one on many. This makes group outcomes more difficult to achieve. If there is no feedback available to the operator, the process used shouldn't be thought of as NLP.
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Posts: 861 | Location: Over Here | Registered: 06 July 2002
Keep in mind that the idea of control here is in a theraputic setting.
Otherwise it is a matter of the subject cooperating with the operator, more on that later in 'inattention'.
Effectiveness has to do with achieving the set outcomes. NLP tries to be precise in that matter by setting specific outcomes and testing during and afreward to see if they were achieved.
Right. And my concerns relate to the manipulation of memory that turns out to not be therapeutic from the "subject's" perspective, or perhaps from the perspective of those who care about the subject.
I've been watching my pre-teen develop his own view of the world, and much of that view is tied to a new peer group. One of the odd thoughts I've had lately is a wistfulness about not starting a church routine in my denomination and so on, back when he was 3, when Sunday school starts and all that. I figure I missed early conditioning opportunities!
That's a lot to say, from someone who prefers to go my own way, and figure things out on my own. I'm experiencing the tug of war, between my preferred version of the world, and the one foisted on him by competing ideologies, some of which I don't much care for, in a visceral way. And it's double wierd, because his little peer group is squeaky clean. lol
--------------------------------------------------------------- "if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got." ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 6804 | Location: usa | Registered: 09 February 2006
I don't believe memory originates in the brain. The brain is merely a storage device for memories which are stored in the Zero Point Field or the akashic records. The buddhists have a term for this too, alayavijnana, I believe. Storehouse consciousness. This sort of hypothesis is suggested by people who can remember past lives. There is also, I believe, cases where the brain is injured and memories believed to be stored in one part of the brain are transferred to another, undamaged part. The brain is somewhat like an external storage device to a computer's hard disk. There is a book which goes into some of this, by a journalist, first name is Lynn, if memory serves. I believe it is just called The Field.
Is it true, what Emerson wrote, that memory makes everything sublimer? I think he was on to something very profound, and true. But I'm too exhausted now to explore it.
-------------------------- "How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?" - Sherlock Holmes
Leonard can remember everything prior to the accident, since his old long-term memories are still intact; but his current attention span lasts roughly 15 minutes (and even less when he's stressed or distracted), and in no case can any of these current memories be permanently implanted in his brain.
Since he can't experience the passage of time, his wife's death is always fresh to him; and so he is passionately determined to find the remaining intruder and kill him. He reminds himself of what he's doing through a series of notes, a pocketful of Polaroid snapshots with helpful information written on them and (for really important stuff) tattoos. We see that he's developed a number of clues to the killer's identity, each of these burned onto his body. The killer's name is John or James and his last name begins with a "G." He's a drug dealer; Leonard even has the killer's license-plate number. As the movie lurches backward, we see how and where he gleans each piece of the puzzle.
Just watching this movie and trying to figure out what the heck is really going on is a memory excercise in its own right. Thankfully, for the memory challenged like yours truly, it's on DVD.
What a difficult type of amnesia you have defined and illustrated. Antegrade amnesia.
Those of us with a glass half full haven't had to confront such suffering, an insight on the fragility of the human mind.
--------------------------------------------------------------- "The hand that erases writes the true thing." ~Meister Eckhart ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 60 | Location: USA | Registered: 01 November 2006
Prisoner of Trebekistan by Bob Harris is a funny look at how he won (and lost) on Jeopardy and includes a very clear section on how to remember things.
It seems that Memory and Quiz shows go hand in hand.
Z.
Say what you mean and mean what you say.
Double talk is only good for political wonks and Lawyers.
Posts: 232 | Location: Portland, Or | Registered: 19 April 2006
"NLP can be very effective but it requires cooperation, or in the broadest application at least inattention."
Inattentive to what?
In the general case, to what is happening. People generally have their minds planted firmly in the future or the past. The more you apply it elsewhere, the less it is applied here and now. This can be utilized.
Inattention can also be induced, based on the same principal. Direct someone's attention over there and they will miss what is going on here. Stage magicians call this technique misdirection.
As well, a complex fast changing environment keeps people distracted. Distraction and inattention subvert critical thinking, our conscious opportunity to interfere with surreptitious installation of information, conclusions and feelings.
memory_hole:
quote:
I don't believe memory originates in the brain.
If it doesn't, where is the opportunity to learn? We do things in the world, our senses take this up and the brain records. If memory is external, then reality need not exist as we can live out memories as if in a dream.
The thing is, the brain is memory, all of its activity is memory of one sort or another, a record of the past. Memory external to the brain would be redundant for day to day activity.
quote:
The brain is merely a storage device for memories which are stored in the Zero Point Field or the akashic records.
A storage device for a storage area?
The computer metaphor would work better if the brain were thought of as the CPU and the external memory area were considered the storage medium: a hard disk, a book or scroll or a basket or jar.
Otherwise, life would be merely an unfolding of an already composed story. Since Buddhist doctrine includes Karma, the ability to change one's own course in life, a record of past and future events cannot be strictly called memory, nor is it.
quote:
The buddhists have a term for this too, alayavijnana, I believe. Storehouse consciousness.
Alayavijnana uses the gardening metaphor which begins with seeds which can be either nurtured or destroyed. This is a nifty invention of Mahayana revisionism, circa 400 C.E. of earlier doctrine and neatly avoids the Karma contradiction.
Seeds represented here are not memories, more like memory potentials such as in a field of seeds only a few come into existence as actual memories as nurturing karma allows.
quote:
This sort of hypothesis is suggested by people who can remember past lives.
Indeed. No reincarnation, no need for memory external to the body.
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Posts: 861 | Location: Over Here | Registered: 06 July 2002
ric: People generally have their minds planted firmly in the future or the past. The more you apply it elsewhere, the less it is applied here and now. This can be utilized.
Inattention can also be induced, based on the same principal. Direct someone's attention over there and they will miss what is going on here. Stage magicians call this technique misdirection.
As well, a complex fast changing environment keeps people distracted. Distraction and inattention subvert critical thinking, our conscious opportunity to interfere with surreptitious installation of information, conclusions and feelings.
Yes, ric, I see your point, especially as to the last paragraph in your quote. I've felt that what once was (in my memory) an integrated cross-thread conversation has morphed into a set of diffused, rambling circumlocutions. The thread of conversation seems to have been dissipated by hard line sound bites and shock and awe tabloid bits. Engagement seems to be absent as a result.
Perhaps there's a design flaw in the human mind that allows it to be shifted away from close inspection of this or that.
--------------------------------------------------------------- "if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got." ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 6804 | Location: usa | Registered: 09 February 2006
quote: I don't believe memory originates in the brain.
If it doesn't, where is the opportunity to learn? We do things in the world, our senses take this up and the brain records. If memory is external, then reality need not exist as we can live out memories as if in a dream.
The thing is, the brain is memory, all of its activity is memory of one sort or another, a record of the past. Memory external to the brain would be redundant for day to day activity.
Quite. Most memory is, indeed redundant. Just as most of the memory within a given lifetime is redundant for the activities of one day, so most of the memories of a given cycle of lifetimes are unnecessary for day to day activity. But they emerge in dreams and visions, exert subtle influences all the same. And those influences are a form of learning.
quote:
quote: The brain is merely a storage device for memories which are stored in the Zero Point Field or the akashic records.
A storage device for a storage area?
The computer metaphor would work better if the brain were thought of as the CPU and the external memory area were considered the storage medium: a hard disk, a book or scroll or a basket or jar.
Otherwise, life would be merely an unfolding of an already composed story. Since Buddhist doctrine includes Karma, the ability to change one's own course in life, a record of past and future events cannot be strictly called memory, nor is it.
Yes, ric, perhaps your computer metaphor may work better: the brain is rather like a random memory to the computer's hard drive memory, which exists in the akashic records. But I'm not sure how your "otherwise..." follows from what I said. But in that case as well the consciousness said to be in the brain, including memories, is nonlocal. I'm certainly no expert in the Akashic records, but my understanding of it is it is a record of past, not future events, so freedom of choice is retained.
-------------------------- "How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?" - Sherlock Holmes
Most memory is, indeed redundant. Just as most of the memory within a given lifetime is redundant for the activities of one day, so most of the memories of a given cycle of lifetimes are unnecessary for day to day activity. But they emerge in dreams and visions, exert subtle influences all the same.
I keep coming back to this thread, because I'm also aware of the non-redundant aspects of memory, and their power.
Several years ago, I studied the approach used by social service agencies to rehabilitate troubled youth. One important aspect of the "plan" was to remove the youth from the existing social group, cold turkey, with no phone or personal contact with old friends or even family members, for a minimum of one month's time. I've not studied the why or the how that works, but isolation from existing support groups is one way to eliminate memory and replace it with new social "encoding."
Odd to think of the fully formed human mind as a blank (er, eraseable) slate, but there's a possibility.
--------------------------------------------------------------- "if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got." ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 6804 | Location: usa | Registered: 09 February 2006
isolation from existing support groups is one way to eliminate memory and replace it with new social "encoding."
Odd to think of the fully formed human mind as a blank (er, eraseable) slate, but there's a possibility.
I don't think what goes on here is memory erasure per se. Children tend to live in the moment and still memory supports that. But the links are short and direct, conclusions limited in scope. The older we get, the longer the chains of associations we have in memory and the longer it takes to play them out which takes us out of the present sensory experience and puts us in the past or our future plans and worries.
If you move a child from one environment to another, what is relevant is in the present, the new environment, and with fewer connections to the past in memory than an adult, there is more cognitive energy to dedicate to the new environment and more freedom to make new connections rather than stabilizing and hardening old connections. The past is less relevant and less involved in shaping new memories in a young person.
You can think of it as a ratio between primary (sensory) experience and secondary (learned) experience where the older a person gets sees an increase in secondary experience in daily living and a decrease in primary experience. Older people tend to live out the past, stuck in sometimes intricate behavior patterns that don't fully interact with the present environment.
Cutting a child off from a peer group shouldn't really erase memory, but it does keep the old memories from growing by not adding new experience, keeping the association links short and the generalizations small and unmotivated by not added emotion.
Since a child is in the 'now,' past forms are less likely to shape present ones (this is a reflection of how the neurology of memory directs the flow of perception) and primary experience is freer to be recorded as new unrelated memory, forming a new family of associations related to the new environment. While memories of the old peer group may still be there, they are simply not engaged as much in sorting out the new situation as they would be in an older person. Of course, the more difference there is between the old and new situations, the cleaner the break of associations between them.
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Posts: 861 | Location: Over Here | Registered: 06 July 2002
--------------------------------------------------------------- "if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got." ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 6804 | Location: usa | Registered: 09 February 2006
Vaguely. I tried to read him recently but he makes me antsy, too Baroque. Disappointing really, as the premise of the book - the biology of transcendence - looked like it was up my alley. It wasn't.
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Baloney: A uniformly textured, mildly flavored immitation meat product for consumption comprised mainly of fat, meat by-products, salt and flavor enhancers which is high in calories and low in nutrition.
Posts: 861 | Location: Over Here | Registered: 06 July 2002
too Baroque. That's a new expression for me. Now, you've got me looking stuff up.
--------------------------------------------------------------- "if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got." ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 6804 | Location: usa | Registered: 09 February 2006
In Ptolemaic Egyptian astrology, the seven planets, Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, the Sun, Venus, Mercury, and the Moon, each had an hour of the day assigned to them, and the planet which was "regent" during the first hour of any day of the week gave its name to that day. The Egyptian form of the seven-day week spread from Egypt to Rome during the first and second century, when the Roman names of the planets were given to each successive day. Germanic-speaking nations apparently adopted the seven-day week from the Romans, so that the dies Solis became Sunday (German, Sonntag).
Our days of the week only got one Roman name, Saturn's day. Sun day and moon day, with the rest Germanic god equivalents of the Roman, such as Woden's day (Odin).
So, happy Thor's day to you.
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Baloney: A uniformly textured, mildly flavored immitation meat product for consumption comprised mainly of fat, meat by-products, salt and flavor enhancers which is high in calories and low in nutrition.
Posts: 861 | Location: Over Here | Registered: 06 July 2002
As for baroque, it strikes me that anyone who tries to put it all together must grapple with a bunch of words to express the nirvana, if it's ever realized.
Hegel, for example, had some difficulty getting "it" said.
--------------------------------------------------------------- "if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got." ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 6804 | Location: usa | Registered: 09 February 2006
The Gullah: Rice, Slavery, and the Sierra Leone-American Connection By Joseph A. Opala
Introduction The Gullah are a distinctive group of Black Americans from South Carolina and Georgia in the southeastern United States. They live in small farming and fishing communities along the Atlantic coastal plain and on the chain of Sea Islands which runs parallel to the coast.
Because of their geographical isolation and strong community life, the Gullah have been able to preserve more of their African cultural heritage than any other group of Black Americans. They speak a creole language similar to Sierra Leone Krio, use African names, tell African folktales, make African-style handicrafts such as baskets and carved walking sticks, and enjoy a rich cuisine based primarily on rice.
Indeed, rice is what forms the special link between the Gullah and the people of Sierra Leone. During the 1700s the American colonists in South Carolina and Georgia discovered that rice would grow well in the moist, semitropical country bordering their coastline. But the American colonists in South Carolina and Georgia had no experience with the cultivation of rice, and they needed African slaves who knew how to plant, harvest, and process this difficult crop.
--------------------------------------------------------------- "if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got." ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 6804 | Location: usa | Registered: 09 February 2006
The popular and educational Island Ambassador program by the Hilton Head Area Hospitality Association will expand in July to offer a course on Gullah history and culture.
The ambassador program, which started in September 2003, has taught roughly 3,000 island hospitality employees, business leaders and curious residents about Hilton Head Island.
The two-hour Gullah course, being designed by Emory Campbell, director of Gullah Heritage Tours, is the third level of the program, said Ann-Marie Adams, executive director of the hospitality association and head of the ambassador program. The first Level 3 course will be on July 10.
Level 1 includes the island’s history and future. Level 2 focuses on travel and tourism.
Each level consists of a two-hour course. Level 1 is in a classroom. Level 2 and the new Gullah course are done as tours of the island, although the format of the Gullah class could change.
“My vision in the future would look more like an event with a sit-down, storytelling aspect to it,” Adams said.
The Gullah culture is a mixture of West African, American Indian and European backgrounds. The culture still exists in coastal South Carolina and Georgia. The Gullah culture was the primary culture on Hilton Head until development started in the 1950s.
--------------------------------------------------------------- "if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got." ---------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 6804 | Location: usa | Registered: 09 February 2006
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