The Wal-Mart Stores Inc. worker fired last month for intercepting a reporter's phone calls says he was part of a larger, sophisticated surveillance operation that included snooping not only on employees, but also on critics, stockholders and the consulting firm McKinsey & Co. As part of the surveillance, the retailer last year had a long-haired employee infiltrate an anti-Wal-Mart group to determine if it planned protests at the company's annual meeting, according to Bruce Gabbard, the fired security worker, who worked in Wal-Mart's Threat Research and Analysis Group.
Thom:
quote:
So, the question: should corporations have the rights of humans? Should they have the ability, should they enjoy the reasonable expectation of privacy? Should they be able to assert their first, fourth, fifth, fourteenth amendments rights throughout the workplace? And we've seen this over and over again. Dow, back in the 70s as I recall, I'd have to pull up a copy of my own book, Unequal Protection: The Rise of Corporate Dominance and the Theft of Human Rights to give you the actual case. But there was somebody who said, you know, 'there's an illegal release of toxins going on here' to the EPA. And the EPA shows up and says, 'OK, we're here to do a surprise inspection' and the company said, 'no, you can't do that'. And the EPA said, 'well, that's what we were created to do'. And the company said, 'No, sorry, can't do that. We have fourth amendment rights to privacy. You need a search warrant. We are a person.' And they went to the Supreme Court and the company actually won. 'Yup, they're a person'.
Or Nike, more recently, asserting their first amendment right to say things that may or may not be the truth in their advertising and PR; took it to the Supreme Court. Now, that got kicked back down to the California court; the issue's still unresolved.
Or big box retailers essentially asserting their fourteenth amendment rights or large hog farms, big agricultural operations saying that you can't discriminate against us; it's the same as saying to an African American that they can't eat at the lunch counter. So, when I walk into a place of business, to my employer, they have the right to remain silent, they have the right to privacy, they have the right against discrimination and all these other rights, but I surrender voluntarily as an employee all my rights of privacy. They can watch my keystrokes. They can listen to my conversations. They can know everything about me. They can track everything that I'm doing. Is this right? I don't think so. Let me just put it out there; I don't think so. I think that there should be some reasonable limits on this.
Sue N.
Posts: 4624 | Location: UK | Registered: 16 November 2004
So, the question: should corporations have the rights of humans? Should they have the ability, should they enjoy the reasonable expectation of privacy? Should they be able to assert their first, fourth, fifth, fourteenth amendments rights throughout the workplace?
Should they have due process or should the government just be able to behave like the Gestapo and run rough shod over businesses?
Corporations don't have more rights than employees, they have more power.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
It's a pity they don't acquire all the attributes and responsibilities of people. Can you imagine if they were treated as minors for their first 18 years? If they were forcibly retired at the normal retirement age? If a single company had no more rights and power than a single person? If they had to die at 100? If we could treat them the way they treat their employees? If the penalties for wrongdoing were in proportion to their size, so they had 10,000 employees the penalties would be 10,000 times as great? Or perhaps the penalties should rise geometrically, since the more money and power you have, the more you can earn - and the more harm you can do.
Sue N.
Posts: 4624 | Location: UK | Registered: 16 November 2004
Originally posted by Sue N: Kids may have a subsidy for 18 years, but they are extremely curtailed in their dealings.
True enough, but I will still sign up for the subsidy if anyone offers it.
quote:
Humans may not be expected to commit suicide at 100, but death is built-in. Few manage to stretch it much later than that.
But how do we know that people will not live to a 1000 in the future? And just because people do die (usually before 100) does not mean that there is some limit built in. My dad plans on living to 99. He uses that in all his calculations for his retirement savings.
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Companies may not be able to vote themselves, but they can buy votes.
Shit, where do I sell my votes! No one has given me any money. And here I voted for the Libertarians and they did not give me a red cent. Next time I will bid it off at Ebay.
Posts: 7939 | Location: Santa Barbara | Registered: 19 July 2005
Rights are rights. Power affords you more privledge, but rights are equal.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
If corporations are persons, then it seems to me, that anyone in jail could claim unequal protection under the law. When is the last time you saw a corporation incarcerated?
Jail means, restraint on movement, societal participation, etc.
Corporations are fined from time to time. How about a suspension of their charter for 6 months...or equal suspensions for negligent manslaughter, etc. that real people face? A restraint on their freedom of action; just like in prison. Either that, or stop the illusion that they are persons.
If they are persons, then I want equal protection under the law or my own rights are being infringed upon.
Do corporations get a free flu shot under Medicaid when they become 62? I'm willing to grant them that equal opportunity.
Posts: 3412 | Location: denver co | Registered: 17 April 2007
Originally posted by Ronald Rutherford: QUOTE] Shit, where do I sell my votes! No one has given me any money. And here I voted for the Libertarians and they did not give me a red cent. Next time I will bid it off at Ebay.
Your vote isn't worth much. When you have a seat in Congress, then its worth buying.
You give your own little vote to much importance if you think its worth buying. You're not going to get rich off of it. Win a Senate seat, then your talking big money! Of course, you have to sell some votes in advance of a likely succesful campaign or you won't have enough for TV ads..
Retired Monk "Ideology is a disease"
Posts: 3412 | Location: denver co | Registered: 17 April 2007
Thom:I strongly agree with your wanting the legal recinding of corporations being given equal political/legal status with people.But that will probably take a long political/legislative time to achieve.I would rather at this point go Carl Rovian,and manipulate the Corporations through the courts, by demanding that if Corporations are individuals,than all their legally protective rights are also ours(the rest of us non corporate individuals),guaranteed by the equal protection amendment of the U.S.Constitution! For example,the recent bankruptcy laws treat corporations differently than non corporate individuals;i.e.,us common individual folk!Which I believe would thus not be Constitutionally legal?...I'm not educated or professional trained in Constitutional law.Perhaps you or someone else in our forum could discuss my idea more cogently or elequently,if what I've just written makes sense. Posts: 1 | Location: Oakhurst,California | Registered: 09 August 2007
Posts: 2 | Location: Oakhurst,California | Registered: 09 August 2007
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