http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=21489

quote:

Saddam Hussein's former southern regional commander, gave the first videotaped testimony confirming that Iraq had WMDs up to the American invasion in 2003 and that Russia helped remove them prior to the war. His testimony confirms numerous other sources that have pointed to Russia's secret alliance with Iraq and the co-ordinated moving of WMDs before the American liberation.

quote:

General Al-Tikriti was known as the "Butcher of Basra" and was a southern regional commander for Saddam Hussein, a friend of his. He defected shortly before the Gulf War but has maintained contacts inside Iraq ever since, including weapons scientists.

He has confirmed in previous interviews that Iraq sent nuclear scientists and technology to Libya in the mid-1990s to continue his WMD programs, and that Syria is the holding place for Iraqi WMD today. He said that he had first-hand knowledge of discussions between Iraq and Syria to send their weapons programs to the other for safe harbor, should either Baghdad or Damascus be threatened with occupation.

quote:

. . . a shocked audience at the Intelligence Summit that he had numerous UK and Ukranian sources track Russian Spetznatz units down into Iraq. It was these Russian special forces who moved the WMD to Syria.

All the pieces fit, the Russians threw sand in our eyes. They moved the WMD across the border while we went digging holes in the desert. Nice allies.

www.WorldThreat.com

quote:

Sudan's Offensive Comes at Key Time
Push in Darfur Seen As Effort to Preempt Deployment by U.N.

By Craig Timberg
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, September 5, 2006; A01

KHARTOUM, Sudan, Sept. 4 -- The Sudanese government has dramatically intensified the war in Darfur in a bid to finish off a tenacious, three-year-old rebellion before a U.N. peacekeeping force can deploy there, say analysts, rebels and officials from the African Union monitoring mission.

Four months after what was hailed as a groundbreaking peace deal was signed in the Nigerian capital of Abuja, bombing raids on villages and increasingly aggressive ground attacks are allowing government forces to drive back rebels while also pushing tens of thousands of civilians into already overflowing camps.

quote:

The U.N. Security Council last week approved a peacekeeping force of up to 22,500 that would take the place of the African Union troops, but Sudanese President Omar Hassan al-Bashir has sought to block it from being deployed. Two students were killed and 10 wounded in the North Darfur capital of El Fasher on Monday as troops violently dispersed a rally supporting the deployment of a U.N. force, news reports said.

British troops find huge cache
Friday, 21 July 2006


British Soldiers discovered a significant weapons cache that included sophisticated bomb making equipment, improvised explosive devices, rockets, mortars and hand grenades near Basra on July 18.Story and photo courtesy of British Ministry of Defense

BASRA - British troops in Basra uncovered a large cache of terrorist weapons and equipment in a dawn raid on July 18.

The operation involved Coalition members from Multi-National Division - Southeast, operating in the northeast suburbs of Basra.

The intelligence-led operation was conducted to search property where weapons were believed to be stored in support of terrorist activities.

Early in the operation, British Soldiers were attacked and returned fire. Attacks on the British troops continued from rocket propelled grenades, mortar rounds and small arms fire throughout the operation.

The Soldiers discovered a significant weapons cache that included sophisticated bomb making equipment, improvised explosive devices, rockets, mortars and hand grenades.

More than two tons of weapons were seized by Soldiers from the British 20th Armor Brigade.

Three suspected terrorists were detained during the search operation.

No British troops were injured in the fighting.

Brig. Gen. James Everard, the brigade's commander, said the raid was "highly successful" and achieved the objective.

"Multi-National forces will combat the threat from terrorists and this is an example of the measures we will take to meet our commitment," he said.

"Along side the governor of Basra and members of the provincial security council this was our pledge, signed in a writen undertaking. We have made it clear that in support of the Basra Security Plan, we will combat those who attempt to incite sedition and destabilize the security situation. We will take the necessary steps to reach our mutually desired end state."

http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&ta...ew&id=1083&Itemid=41

The al Qaeda manual

The attached manual was located by the Manchester (England) Metropolitan Police
during a search of an al Qaeda member ’s home. The manual was found in a computer file
described as “the military series ”related to the “Declaration of Jihad. "The manual was
translated into English and was introduced earlier this year at the embassy bombing trial in New
York.


DECLARATION OF JIHAD [HOLY WAR ] AGAINST THE COUNTRY ’S TYRANTS
MILITARY SERIES
[Emblem ]:A drawing of the globe emphasizing the Middle East and Africa with a sword through the globe
[On the emblem:] Military Studies in the Jihad [Holy War ] Against the Tyrants

[E ]19/220

In the name of Allah, the merciful and compassionate
PRESENTATION
To those champions who avowed the truth day and night... ...And wrote with their blood and sufferings these phrases...
-*-The confrontation that we are calling for with the apostate regimes does not know Socratic debates..., Platonic ideals..., nor Aristotelian diplomacy. But it knows the dialogue of bullets, the ideals of assassination, bombing, and destruction, and the diplomacy of the cannon and machine-gun.

***...
Islamic governments have never and will never be established
through peaceful solutions and cooperative councils. They are established as they [always ]have been

by pen and gun
by word and bullet
by tongue and teeth

Pledge, O Sister

To the sister believer whose clothes the criminals have stripped o f f .
To the sister believer whose hair the oppressors have shaved.
To the sister believer who's body has been abused by the human dogs.
To the sister believer whose...
Pledge, O Sister
Covenant, O Sister ...to make their women widows and their children orphans.
Covenant, O Sister ...to make them desire death and hate appointments and prestige.
Covenant, O Sister...to slaughter them like lambs and let the Nile,al-Asi,and Euphrates rivers flow with their blood.
Covenant, O Sister...to be a pick of destruction for every godless and apostate regime.
Covenant, O Sister...to retaliate for you against every dog who touch you even with a bad word.

In the name of Allah, the merciful and compassionate
Thanks be to Allah. We thank him, turn to him, ask his forgiveness, and seek refuge in him from our wicked souls and bad deeds. Whomever Allah enlightens will not be misguided, and the
deceiver will never be guided. I declare that there is no god but Allah alone; he has no partners. I a l s o declare that Mohammed is his servant and prophet.

[Koranic verses ]:

“O ye who believe! Fear Allah as He should be feared, and die not except in a state of Islam"

“O mankind! Fear your guardian lord who created you from a single person. Created, out of it, his mate, and from them twain scattered [like seeds ]countless men and women; fear Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual [rights ],and be heedful of the wombs [that bore you ]:for Allah ever watches over you."

"O ye who believe! Fear Allah, and make your utterance straight forward: That he may make your conduct whole and sound and forgive you your sins. He that obeys Allah and his messenger, has already attained the great victory."

Afterward,

The most truthful saying is the book of Allah and the best guidance is that of Mohammed, God bless and keep him. [Therefore,] the worst thing is to introduce something new, for every novelty is an act of heresy and each heresy is a deception.

*************************************

quote:

The Irreconcilable Wing of Islam believes in a strikingly different world then the one we believe. It is an uncivilized and barbaric world. This wing of Islam, and its adherents and recruits, are irreconcilable because they cannot peacefully coexist with the civilized world. Their views on the role of women, on the application of medieval religious law (the Sha’ria) and religious intolerance (prosecuting Christians) make them irreconcilable with civilization in the modern age.

This ideological wing of Islam is irreconcilable because it does not accept freedom of conscience.

It does not accept freedom of speech.

It does not accept that women are equal in dignity and equal under the law, but instead accords them an inferior status in the life of society.

It does not accept the existence of the United States, with the Iranian regime adherents of the Irreconcilable Wing of Islam constantly fomenting a cheering chorus calling the United States the “Great Satan” and calling for its destruction. Their constantly declared goal is to either destroy or dominate the United States.

It does not accept Israel as a legal state.

It does not accept the inherent dignity of every human life. Instead, it supports the taking of innocent lives--in the name of its ideology--of anyone or any group that disagrees with its world view.

Dutch citizen Theo van Gogh dared to criticize certain practices of the Irreconcilable Wing of Islam and an adherent of this wing killed him in cold blood on the streets of Amsterdam. After first shooting and then standing over a still alive van Gogh who was begging for his life, the killer slit his throat and then stabbed a knife into his chest with a letter attached. The letter contained the following threat: “I surely know that you, O America, will be destroyed. I surely know that you, O Europe, will be destroyed. I surely know that you, O Holland, will be destroyed.”

Should we not assume the fervor of this cold blooded killer is matched by the fervor of the current President of Iran? Should we not then take the Iranian president seriously when he threatens to destroy the United States and wipe Israel off the face of the map?

Because this war is at its core an ideological war, it is more accurate to think of and identify this war as the “Long War”.

**********************************

The nation will pause today to remember, September 11. Five years ago we saw a manifestation of evil that was shocking and sobering, as terrorists attacked New York and Washington, DC.

What was it that constituted the specific evil of September 11? It was that some human beings had no regard for the right to life of other human beings. That makes the events of that day more profoundly disturbing than "loss" or "tragedy"; that's what makes them "evil."

Yet is this evil any less if the victims are five inches tall instead of five feet tall, or if the instruments of killing are surgical forceps rather than airplanes?

The evil we fight when we oppose terrorism is merely a reflection of the evil we do. Every day, from coast to coast, our nation's abortion clinics carry out the same evil. Some human beings disregard the right to life of other human beings.

Iran and Syria are doing all they can to try to re-arm Hizballah despite an Israeli air and sea blockade, Israel said on Thursday. But one expert said that stopping the flow of money to the organization could be just as important as halting the weapons supply.

United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan spent this week here in the region urging Israel - first from Lebanon, then from Jerusalem and on Thursday from Amman, Jordan - to lift its air and sea blockade of Lebanon.

Israel imposed the air and sea blockade seven weeks ago at the beginning of the war with Hizballah, to prevent weapons from being transferred to the organization, which is funded and supplied by Syria and Iran.

Now Israel is reluctant to give up that control unless international forces are in place that will control the ports and stop the flow of weapons.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told Annan on Wednesday that Israel would not be removing the blockade yet and the government was ready to explain its reluctance on Thursday.

Israel is "deeply concerned" about the continuing efforts of Syria and Iran to re-supply weapons to Hizballah, said Israeli government spokesperson Miri Eisen. Since the ceasefire took affect on Aug. 14, they have been trying to bring in weapons overland since the air and sea routes are closed, she said.

Hundreds of Russian, Syrian and Iranian-made anti-tank missiles were fired at Israeli forces in southern Lebanon during the recent war. Dozens more were captured by Israel unused, Eisen said. It is this kind of weaponry that Hizballah is trying to re-stock, she said.

According to U.N. Resolution 1701, there is an embargo against supplying weapons to any non-governmental group, i.e. Hizballah, (with the exception of the international force).

Israel wants to see the international force, now taking shape in Lebanon, deployed along the 375-kilometer (225 mile) Lebanese-Syrian border as well as manning the air and seaports to prevent weapons from reaching Hizballah.

Prior to the war, Hizballah controlled all cargo at the Beirut airport, one source said. Iran, which shares no border with Lebanon, was free to ship weapons to Hizballah by air and sea. Israel wants to prevent that from happening again.

The Lebanese government has said it does not want international forces to man the border with Syria and insists that it can do the job. Syrian President Bashar al-Assad has also voiced his opposition to such a plan.

Israel thinks that the Lebanese government knows about the smuggling attempts but is unwilling or unable to stop it on its own, said Eisen.

Along that border there are nine major legal crossing points, through which trucks carrying missiles and rockets could pass, and there is no border fence, Eisen said. Israel believes a robust international force could help to secure these crossings, she said.

Cut the flow of money

"Iran and Syria will do their best to continue to arm Hizballah," said Dr. Rachel Ehrenfeld, director of the American Center for Democracy. "But if they won't have access to money, their ability to hold on to their 'volunteers' will diminish."

If they can't pay the volunteers and sustain their social, medical and welfare organizations, it will also cut down on their ability to recruit, Ehrenfeld said from the U.S. It will also limit their ability [to] pay for propaganda through the media, radio, TV and Internet, to travel, buy false documents and pay for safe houses, she added.

But what might seem like a logical solution for crippling the organization is meeting with resistance.

"The international community, i.e. the U.N. and the E.U. are doing all they can to preserve Hizballah," said Ehrenfeld. (While the U.S. considers Hizballah to be a terrorist organization, the European Union does not.)

But Ehrenfeld argued that although Hizballah has members in the Lebanese parliament, it is not a political party. "Hizballah is the operational arm of Iran and a fifth column inside Lebanon."

The international community should concentrate not only on the effort to disarm Hizballah but to freeze the group's bank accounts, which are also in Lebanon, Ehrenfeld said.

Hizballah funds

During the last six years, experts say, Hizballah used its social outreach to gain popularity among the local population. Hizballah leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah has vowed to help rebuild Lebanon. It is believed he would do so with the financial help of Iran.

Nasrallah said in a television interview earlier this week the millions of dollars in cash that his group is handing out for reconstruction in Lebanon and to help those who are suffering was "clean" money that had no political strings attached that "could jeopardize the national interests" of Lebanon.

But Ehrenfeld said Hizballah is not an independent organization and much of its money comes from criminal activities around the world.

In addition to the hundreds of millions of dollars that Hizballah receives from Iran, the organization also has a booming business in illegal drug trade, counterfeit goods, bank robberies and fraud.

Hizballah runs a flourishing drug trade in the tri-border region in Latin America (Paraguay, Brazil and Argentina) and in the Bekaa Valley in Lebanon, where Syria is heavily involved in the growing of hashish and production of heroine, said Ehrenfeld, who is the author of "Funding Evil: How Terrorism is Financed and How to Stop It."

In addition, Hizballah is involved in crime, counterfeiting CDs, DVDs and clothing as well as in bank robberies and fraud. Its illegal activities were estimated to net Hizballah some $6 billion annually, about three years ago, Ehrenfeld said.

Hizballah also raises money through charities and Internet websites, although many were closed after Aug. 12, she added.

On Wednesday, the U.S. Department of Treasury designated one of those charities - The Islamic Resistance Support Organization - as a key fundraising organization for Hizballah.

"While some terrorist-supporting charities try to obscure their support for violence, IRSO makes no attempt to hide its true colors," said Stuart Levey, Treasury's Under Secretary for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence (TFI).

"IRSO's fundraising materials present donors with the option of sending funds to equip Hizballah fighters or to purchase rockets that Hizballah uses to target civilian populations," Levey said.Linking the group to Hizballah locks the IRSO out of the U.S. financial system by freezing its assets in the U.S. and prohibiting Americans from dealing with the group.

Al-Qaida Warns Muslims: Time To Get Out Of U.S.
Afghan terror commander hints at big attack on N.Y., Washington
WorldNetDaily.com

The new al-Qaida field commander in Afghanistan is calling for Muslims to leave the U.S. -- particularly Washington and New York -- in anticipation of a major terror attack to rival Sept. 11, according to an interview by a Pakistani journalist.

Jihad vowed

Who is acknowledging the real threat of terrorism?

Let's not forget the threat posed by George W. Bush and the Amerifascists posing as Christians.

It is the Islamicfascists terrorists' jihads that have vowed to wipe Israel of the face of the earth, have vowed to kill all infidels if they do not convert and, oh, BTW, have prayed for civilization to end in two years.

So who's the world wide threat???

Senators want the prisoner of the mastermind of the 9/11 and other evil atrocities to be treated like Martha Steward:

quote:

Originally posted by GG:
It is the Islamicfascists terrorists' jihads that have vowed to wipe Israel of the face of the earth, have vowed to kill all infidels if they do not convert and, oh, BTW, have prayed for civilization to end in two years.

So who's the world wide threat???

But it is the Bush Endtimers who are the ones actually trying to fulfill the book of revelations and bring about Armageddon.

quote:

Originally posted by GG:
Senators want the prisoner of the mastermind of the 9/11 and other evil atrocities to be treated like Martha Steward:

About the same time Bush announced the US intention to ignore the geneva conventions and start torturing prisoners--not only did the US sell its soul to the Devil--but we started losing people like Pearl and Berg and many others to beheadings.

Those of us who argued against fascism disguised as Bush-style Christianity warned early on that these kinds of things would result--not to mention that future US POW's may very well be subjected to torture.

Strawberry, desperately you make statements and cannot give factual incidences of any proportionately improper care of Islamic fascists' prisoner. These prisoners of war are generously treated with many comforts, given better food, and awarded more rights than the guards.

I would think you would be grateful for the guards putting their lives on the line for the safety of you and your family.

The Beheadings had NOTHING to do with your accusations.

Jesus loves torture

Strawberry

quote:

But it is the Bush Endtimers who are the ones actually trying to fulfill the book of revelations and bring about Armageddon.

Why do you say this, Strawberry? This is slander and contrived interpretation of scripture that is useful as a weapon for some.

Do you recognize Pope Benedict XVI's call for unity, that ideology of power has given way to terrorism. He points out the "new barbarism that threatens world peace.

Terrorists and their various organizations, are rejecting the best achievements of our civilization.

The fundamental responsibility of political authority is to promote, defend and safeguard the human rights of its people."

Zenit.org ZE06092807

Are Islamicfascists looking out for 'human rights'?

quote:

Originally posted by GG:

The Beheadings had NOTHING to do with your accusations.

So it's just a coincidence the beheadings started after Bush publicly announced we would ignore the geneva conventions and after the torture debate resulted immediately thereafter?

Ok, you believe that.

Frankly, any religious group that accepts torture and warmongering is a violent religion.

And no, I am not grateful to any US troop who commits crimes--even if ordered to. They have a duty not to follow illegal orders and instead to report such abuses to other superior officers.

I am grateful to all US troops who perform their duties to the best of their ability within the law, and I also recognize sometimes that war--and war led by incompetent civilians--forces unusual choices on a few troops who then shoudl be considered victims instead of criminals. In that sense, many young people are committing crimes because of a lack of leadership from Washington, and many of these young people in my opinion are victims.

quote:

Originally posted by GG:
Strawberry

quote:

But it is the Bush Endtimers who are the ones actually trying to fulfill the book of revelations and bring about Armageddon.

Why do you say this, Strawberry? This is slander and contrived interpretation of scripture that is useful as a weapon for some.

Do you recognize Pope Benedict XVI's call for unity, that ideology of power has given way to terrorism. He points out the "new barbarism that threatens world peace.

Terrorists and their various organizations, are rejecting the best achievements of our civilization.

The fundamental responsibility of political authority is to promote, defend and safeguard the human rights of its people."

Zenit.org ZE06092807

Are Islamicfascists looking out for 'human rights'?

Child, most of the terrorists are creations of the people you falsely worship.

Strawberry

quote:

So it's just a coincidence the beheadings started after Bush publicly announced we would ignore the geneva conventions and after the torture debate resulted immediately thereafter?

The terrorists combatants are not covered by the Geneva Convention I claim not to be an authority on this but possibly these might be some of the reasons:

not having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

not carrying arms openly;

That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

And MUCH much more.

Strawberry, what about the Geneva Convention violations of the beheadings. ARE you equally upset at these killers for violations!!Were you upset that Pope Benedict XVI's life is in danger because of his speech, the burnings, the nun killed, the promises to kill all infidels!!!! Your outrage is terribly misplaced. We have an enemy that has prayed for civilization to end and you want to impeach Pres. Bush. Proportionately, YOU've got a problem.

What about the Catholic Priests that China continually takes into prison falsely charged, tortured, and not released until years of separation and inhumane treaments.

Are you equally outraged? Of course not. You are part of the Bush hating crowd and at all and ANY cost, tear him down; likewise you are tearing down your nation.

* * * * * * * *
Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.

THE TOP 10 REASONS WHY IT'S QUITE POSSIBLE THAT ISLAM ISN'T EXACTLY A RELIGION OF PEACE.
By Don Feder 08-28-06

"When you hear of a terrorist incident, is the first thought that pops into your head: Probably some crazy Muslim? Guess what? It probably was some crazy Muslim!

Guessing the religion of those who plant bombs, highjack planes, fire into crowds of civilians, take hostages and murder hostages is the world's ultimate no-brainer.

And yet our leaders, the media and many of us pretend there's absolutely no connection between psychopathic, ideological killers and the religion which exalts the slaughter of unbelievers.

Top 10 Reasons Why It's Quite Possible That Islam Isn't Exactly A Religion of Peace.

#1 -- While it's certainly true that not all Muslims are terrorists, it's equally true that most terrorists are Muslims.

Think about the really ghastly terrorist incidents over the past two decades -- the 1983 Beirut Marine barracks bombing (242 dead), the 1988 Pam Am 103 bombing (259 dead), the 1993 World Trade Center attack (6 dead, more than 1,000 injured), the 1994 bombing of the Buenos Aires Jewish Center (86 dead ), the 1998 bombing of U.S. embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam (291 dead, 5,000 wounded), the 2000 attack on the U.S.S. Cole (17 dead), September 11, 2001 (over 3,000 killed), the 2002 Moscow theater hostage-taking (94 dead), the 2004 Beslan school hostage crisis (344 dead), the 2004 Madrid train bombings (192 dead), the 2005 London underground bombings (56 dead) and the 2006 commuter train bombings in Mumbai -- formerly Bombay (at least 200 dead).

In each and every case, the killers were... ? That is correct, sir -- Muslims! What other religion condones savagery committed in its name?

#2 -- Muslims don't play well with other children. Wherever there's religious bloodshed anywhere in the world, it's invariably Muslims versus someone else. Could this be a coincidence?

Israel, Gaza and Lebanon -- Muslims verses Jews. Kashmir -- Muslims vs. Hindus. Kosovo/Bosnia -- Muslims vs. Serbian Orthodox. Nigeria, the Sudan -- Muslims versus Christians. Indonesia -- Muslims vs. Christians. Myanmar -- Muslims vs. Buddhists. The Northern Caucuses -- Chechen Muslims against Russia Orthodox, and so on.

Islam remains what it was at its beginning 1,300 years ago -- a violent, expansionist faith that will tolerate no competitors. What other religion has the concept of jihad (holy war) -- the notion that if you die fighting for Allah you get 72 virgins (exhausting as that must be) in Paradise? Muhammed started by eliminating the competition -- annihilating Jewish tribes in the Arabian Peninsula. More than a millennium latter, it's still business as usual for his successors.



#3 -- For Muslims, violence and threats of violence are always the first resort to any perceived insult or injury.

Recall the Muslim response to Danish cartoons of their beloved prophet. The Danish embassy in Beirut was burned to the ground. There were death threats against the cartoonists and the editors of papers that published the cartoons. (In London, protestors held signs proclaiming "Those who insult Islam should die" and "Europe is a disease. Islam is the cure.")

In rioting in Nigeria, Libya, Pakistan and Afghanistan, 139 died. Protestors were particularly offended by the implication of the cartoons -- that Muhammed and his religion encourage murder and mayhem. The irony of "They say Islam promotes violence? For that they should die!" was lost on demonstrators.



#4 -- Islam is virulently anti-Semitic

Jews have been described as the miner's canary of the world. Those who start with the Jews never stop there. The 20th century's mass murderers -- the Nazis and communists -- saw Jews as a special threat. Hitler killed 6 million Jews -- as well as millions of non-Jews.

The Koran connects genocide to the end times: "The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims kill them, so Jews will hide behind stones and trees and the Stone and the tree will say 'O Muslim, 'O servant of God! There is a Jew behind me; come and kill him." Muhammed called Jews "the descendants of apes and pigs."

Every anti-Semitic canard in history has currency in the Muslim world, including the Blood Libel (that Jews murder non-Jewish children and use their blood to bake Passover matzo) and The Protocols of The Elders of Zion ("exposing" a Jewish conspiracy to subdue humanity).

Jew-hatred is a staple of Muslim rhetoric.

In a recent interview with the Egyptian weekly Al-Ahram, Gen. Hamid Gul (former head of Pakistani Intelligence) said Mel Gibson was right, "Jews cause all the wars." Egyptian Mufti Sheikh Ali Gum'a says the war in Lebanon once again exposed the "Hebrew entity" (Israel) as "the bloodsuckers... who prepare matzos from human blood." In Britain, popular Islamic cleric Sheikh Abdullah el-Faisal (a Jamaican convert) tells audiences "Jews should be killed... as by Hitler."

When he met John Paul II in 2001, Syrian President-for-Life Bashar Assad told the pontiff that the Jews "try to kill all the principles of divine faith with the same mentality of betraying Jesus and torturing him."

And Adb al-Rahman al-Sudais, sheikh of Mecca's Grand Mosque, in Islam's holiest city, calls Jews "the scum of the earth," and calls for the genocide of a people who are, in the sheikh's words, "an ongoing continuum of deceit, obstinacy, licentiousness, evil and corruption."

Muslims really have a hard time deciding whether the Holocaust: 1) Never happened 2) Is grossly exaggerated or 3) Didn't go far enough.



#5 -- Public Opinion In The Muslim World is Scary.

Muslim public opinion can be summarized as acid hatred, chauvinism and revenge fantasies -- leavened with paranoia. In the 5 years since 9/11, polls consistently show that, irrefutable evidence to the contrary notwithstanding, worldwide, a majority of Muslims believe the World Trade Center attack couldn't possibly have been committed by Arab Muslims.

Naturally, they attribute the crime to "Zionists." If someone wrote a book titled "How To Fly a Plane Into A Skyscraper Whilst Using Human Blood To Bake Matzos: A Zionist Training Manual," it would top the Tehran Bestsellers List.



#6 -- Generally, the more Muslim a nation, the more lunatic and dangerous it is.

Think Iran. Think Saudi Arabia. Think Afghanistan while the Taliban was in power.

Think of the fate of women in these regimes -- consigned to the status of breeding stock. Think of their attitudes toward democracy, civil liberties and minority rights -- No way, Jamal.

As a rule, the more a nation is governed by Islamic law and customs, the more it hates the West, supports terrorism (Iran's support for Hezbollah, Syria's support for Hamas, Al Qaeda training camps in Taliban Afghanistan. Radical mosques in the US financed by the Saudis), and covets weapons of mass jihad (witness Iran's nuclear program).

If Islam is the religion of peace, where is its St. Francis of Assisi, Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr. and Mother Teresa? Where are the Islamic equivalents of the Quakers and Jehovah's Witnesses?

Far from making rulers more enlightened, Islam specializes in the mass production of Ayatollah Khomeinis, Osama bin Ladens, Mullah Omars, Hafez Assads and Saddam Husseins.



#7 -- When a young Muslim becomes more involved with his religion, his thoughts often stray to suicide bombing.



#8 -- Islam isn't minority friendly.

In Freedom House's 2006 Global Survey, of the 8 countries with the worst human rights records, 5 are Muslim -- Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Libya, Syria and Sudan. The other three -- Cuba, North Korea and Burma -- are communist dictatorships. Cuba and North Korea are frequently aligned with radical Muslim regimes.

Islam has the concept of the dhimmi (non-Moslem living under Islam), which is several steps below blacks in the Jim Crow South -- though slightly better than Jews in Nazi Germany.



#9 -- Where Have All The Moderate Muslims Gone -- Long Time Passing?

If suicide bombers are radical Muslims, apologists for suicide bombers must be moderate Muslims. (In a letter to Tony Blair following the unraveling of the latest plot, 40 Muslim community leaders -- including six members of Parliament -- claimed Britain's foreign policy gave "ammunition to extremists.")

If someone slaughtered hundreds of innocents in the name of Christianity, everyone from the Pope and Billy Graham to your parish priest or local pastor would denounce the crime as an obscenity -- without reference to the fall of Constantinople.

Hardly a day goes by that evil isn't perpetrated in the name of Islam somewhere in the world. When it comes to denouncing same, moderate Muslims are mostly AWOL.



# 10 -- Islam is bent on global conquest.

"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran... should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth." -- Omar Ahmad, founder of the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR).

"Islam will return to Europe. The conquest need not necessarily be by the sword. Perhaps we will conquer these lands without armies. We want an army of preachers and teachers who will present Islam in all languages and all dialects." -- Dr. Al-Qaradawi, Egyptian-born, Qatar-based spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood.

"The Muslims are required to raise the banner of jihad in order to make the Word of Allah supreme in the world." -- posting on the website of the Islamic Affairs Department of the Saudi government. (These oil-rich fascists control roughly 80% of U.S. mosques.)

"Islam is advancing according to a steady plan, to the point that tens of thousands of Muslims have joined the American army and Islam is the second largest religion in America. America will be destroyed. But we must be patient." -- Saudi Professor Nassar bin Suleiman al-Omar on al-Majd TV.

Within 100 years of Muhammed's death, Islam had conquered the Middle East and spread across North Africa before it was finally stopped in southern France. Today, due to immigration, one in every 10 Frenchmen is a Muslim and an estimated 50,000 convert to Islam each year.

If you don't get it, you're not paying attention. Or, perhaps your religion (liberalism) blinds you to the truth.

Islam is: A) A religion of peace B) A religion of rest in peace C) A religion that leaves you in pieces or D) A religion that wants a piece of what you have now -- the rest later?

quote:

Jesus loves torture

You're very silly, AJ.

Jesus says to turn the other cheek and terrorists say strap on a bomb to your body and go and kill them.

Which one is looking out for you, AJ? Which one has DIED FOR YOU and but does not FORCE you to believe and accept, nor will He command another to kill you for not doing so.

C'mon, AJ - get real!

quote:

perhaps your religion (liberalism) blinds yo

Jesus was a liberal.

LisaP

quote:

Jesus was a liberal.

Liberal is one of the newly 'metamorphosed' words with strategic new meaning; likewise, choice, common good, solidarity - - - -.

A world threat -

the United Nations not demanding that Hezbollah return the kidnapped Israeli soldiers.

United Nations not demanding that they apologize to the families that lost the lives of loved ones because Hezbollah built their arsenal of weapons around civilivans.

Does anybody know about the Israelis kidnapped and their existence, their treatment, care of them, and or any OTHER PRISONERS taken by Islamofascists?



Does anybody out there CARE?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: GG,

The Beheadings had NOTHING to do with your accusations.

Prove that. In fact, name any American ever beheaded in Iraq before Bush unwisely announced we would start torturing prisoners or treating them as if the geneva conventions or ANY SYSTEM OF LAW did not apply to them. Tell me, do you believe Jesus would approve of legalized torture or a leadership that creates an environment wherein overly aggressive interrogation techniques would be used against 1000s of untried prisoners--some of which may be terrorists and many of whihc are not? Do you think Jesus would approve of holding untried prisoners (Americans, Iraqi's or anyone else) in secret without having the right to attorneys?

When the beheadings took place is irrelevant. What valid reason can ever be given for that behavior?

The terrorists combatants are not covered by the Geneva Convention I claim not to be an authority on this but possibly these might be some of the reasons:

not having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

not carrying arms openly;

That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

And MUCH much more.

I am not arguing technical points of law here. I am not a lawyer. Jesus would not care whether these prisoners were technically covered under the geneva conventions. The questions is, is it WISE for a President to basically claim that 1000s of foreighn prisoners have absolitely no legal rights, and therefore he an do whatever he wants with them, including using aggressive interrogation techniques, which of course means torture?

Strawberry, what about the Geneva Convention violations of the beheadings. ARE you equally upset at these killers for violations!!

Yes. Of course. And my crying for these kinds of people began before they were beheaded. When Bush first announced his draconian interpretations of laws we have used for decades to assist civilized nations to treat and hold prisoners, I knew even back then that innocent life would be snuffed out and that toerrorists would use those unwise and unCivilized interpretations of law to exact pain and suffering on kidnapped westerners and future US POWs.


Were you upset that Pope Benedict XVI's life is in danger because of his speech, the burnings, the nun killed, the promises to kill all infidels!!!!

Of course. Please stop implying that because we have not talked about something in particular, that we must must therfore have different opinions.

Your outrage is terribly misplaced.

Jesus would not think so. Jesus would be outraged too.

We have an enemy that has prayed for civilization to end and you want to impeach Pres. Bush.

Bush has broken many laws and invaded a country unjustly. He has lied to us and turned us into torturers. Many people have prayed for our destruction since the day our country was founded. That does not mean we should not prosecute criminal wrongdoing--especially when such criminals are doing things to empower those who hate us

Proportionately, YOU've got a problem.

One of them being that US Christians support warmongering and toture as official US law.

What about the Catholic Priests that China continually takes into prison falsely charged, tortured, and not released until years of separation and inhumane treaments.

I think we should investigate and prosecute the criminals of such crimes. Unfortunately, with Bush as our leader, and by legalizing torture and unjust wars, we can expect more of that to happen--not less.

Are you equally outraged? Of course not.

You barely kow me! How can you in good conscience know how I feel about something we have never spoken about? Would younlike to apologize now for judging me prematurely? Of course I am outraged by all murders and torture and unjust wars. Are you? Are you equally outraged that innocent people have been tortured in guatanamo? Are you outraged that a Canadian citizen was detained by the US and sent oversaes to be tortured before they finally realized he was innocent and let him go?

You are part of the Bush hating crowd and at all and ANY cost, tear him down; likewise you are tearing down your nation.

Perhaps what is really happening is that you are engaging in false idol worship of Bush? You have made repeated baseless accusationa against me--a fellow country-women here in this discussion even before getting to know me. So who is trying to tear down the country?

quote:

Originally posted by Coalage500:
When the beheadings took place is irrelevant. What valid reason can ever be given for that behavior?

It's called cause and effect.

It is reasonable to ask whether Bush's support of torture is a cause of retaliatory kidnappings and beheadings, etc..

If people are going to condemn the "torture policy", then they should be condemning the beheading with the same veracity.

As they say, two wrongs don't make a right.

quote:

Originally posted by Coalage500:
If people are going to condemn the "torture policy", then they should be condemning the beheading with the same veracity.

As they say, two wrongs don't make a right.

You should not assume I/we do not condemn beheadings and terrorism because we have not talked about it.

Of course every reasonable American condemns beheadings.

But why do so many Americans tolerate torture of ANY prisoners by ANY country--especially when it can be argued that beheadings may be an angry reaction?

If it is to be argued that our policies (such as whether or not we allow torture or imprisonment of people without any lawful oversight and in secret), then such people can not also argue that American values have positive power and real world significance.

Strawberry

quote:

Would younlike to apologize now for judging me prematurely?

Yes, Strawberry, I ask for your forgiveness if I have insulted you. It serves no good purpose to insult you nor any other person, for it prevents us talking about some very important issues that effects the survival of civilization as we know it.

I came to this forum to learn how to discuss these issues and I do make mistakes. Abortion was the main topic for me, but it has been difficult to stay just on abortion. Posting in this forum has caused me to discover more who I am and the result is I have become more deeply convicted in what the Catholic Church teaches.

Each new challenge caused me to do extensive research in order to better grapple with the issues. I believe I am on solid ground, rooted and grounded in immutable Truth, truth that has been, is the same today and will never change for they are not humanly/relatively contrived in each new generation nor each individual circumstance.

I do get overwhelmed at times, and I often ask myself what is my intention. To the best of my ability, Strawberry, I am willing to risk speaking out on what I believe to be appropriate human behavior that each of us need to grasp. Everybody here is worth the effort and risk. If I am misunderstood, than I will try again to explain. If I make mistakes than I will apologize. Each person has the capacity to obtain their 'ultimate good', and that good is to be a wholesome virtuous person. Hopefully together we will obtain true happiness and freedom that God wants for His people.

Once again, I am sorry if I have hurt you.

This is our common enemy. It is important that we get to understand who they are and what they want.

Portions of a Commentary -By Don Feder
08-28-06

quote:

Whether they bury us with swords, explosives or immigration and procreation, the fate Islam has in store for us is the same.

If you don't get it, you're not paying attention. Or, perhaps your religion (liberalism) blinds you to the truth.

Islam is: A) A religion of peace B) A religion of rest in peace C) A religion that leaves you in pieces or D) A religion that wants a piece of what you have now -- the rest later?

quote:

"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran... should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth." -- Omar Ahmad, founder of the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR).

quote:

"The Muslims are required to raise the banner of jihad in order to make the Word of Allah supreme in the world." -- posting on the website of the Islamic Affairs Department of the Saudi government. (These oil-rich fascists control roughly 80% of U.S. mosques.)

quote:

Islam has the concept of the dhimmi (non-Moslem living under Islam), which is several steps below blacks in the Jim Crow South -- though slightly better than Jews in Nazi Germany.

All acts of terrorism are done by Muslims.

quote:

All acts of terrorism are done by Muslims.

In your unaware and uninformed world I dare say they do.

quote:

Originally posted by GG:
All acts of terrorism are done by Muslims.

Timothy McVeigh was not a Muslim.

Most of the insurgents in Iraq are Iraqi citizens opposing an invading force (us).

The people who mail anthrax envelopes to Democrats are Americans.

Eric Rudolph is an American Christian.

In sum, there are many terrorists who are not Muslims. But, our policies are indeed creating more terrorists every day, as the Pentagon report recently said.

Jesus loves torture. He gets off that way. By the way, one only tortures Evil-doers right?

So, "Evil-Doers" MUST be tortured. This "Christian" nation will not sleep till every Muslim, I mean Evil-doer has been tortured.

Strawberry

quote:

Jesus would not care whether these prisoners were technically covered under the geneva conventions.

I believe, Strawberry, that we all have the responsibility to acquire a properly formed conscience so as to make prudent decisions in these difficult times.

The 'enemy combatants' have been entrusted to the care of the guards. I marvel at their willingness to risk their lives for our safety.

IMO, their witness shows the respect for world's citizens to attain proper living conditions, to give citizens a chance to grow to maturity, to have the proper food, clothing, medical care, education, employment, and social assistance.

Contrast the witness of Islamofascists who seek world dominance at any price. Force has no dignity. Conversion at the point of a gun is NOT an option to be tolerated by any of us.

Prudential judgments by governments cannot be denied, nor the right to lawful defense from unlawful aggressors. Legitimate authorities of nations have the right and the duty to impose on their citizens the obligations necessary for national defense. Any force contrary to the law of nations and to 'universal principles' are crimes.

I look forward to your response.

quote:

So, "Evil-Doers" MUST be tortured. This "Christian" nation will not sleep till every Muslim, I mean Evil-doer has been tortured.

Hey, AJ, IMO, some of the guards were SET UP to make it appear that they were torturing detainees to make the US look bad once again. I truly believe it was contrived and that there is a money trail. I think I smell George Soros. He's got too much time on his hands and money that has corrupted his thinking!

So when are you going to join, Fidel Castro, Hugo Chevas, or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. They would just love you!

quote:

Originally posted by Strawberry:

quote:

Originally posted by GG:
All acts of terrorism are done by Muslims.

Timothy McVeigh was not a Muslim.

Most of the insurgents in Iraq are Iraqi citizens opposing an invading force (us).

The people who mail anthrax envelopes to Democrats are Americans.

Eric Rudolph is an American Christian.

In sum, there are many terrorists who are not Muslims. But, our policies are indeed creating more terrorists every day, as the Pentagon report recently said.

What do you think is the difference between a terrorist and a criminal?

quote:

Originally posted by KennyMac:

quote:

All acts of terrorism are done by Muslims.

In your unaware and uninformed world I dare say they do.

Hey, KennyMac, I thought you had dug yourself so deep down under that you were not going to surface again.

I think it would be beneficial to have an understanding of who are terrorists and - what is an act of terrorism.

I think I have a sense of what a terrorist is and I have some examples that I might bring forward but will wait. Would you accept that most acts of terrorism are done by radical Muslims? Or do you find joy slashing my opinions?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: GG,

quote:

This "Christian" nation will not sleep till every Muslim, I mean Evil-doer has been tortured.

Evil is not to be coddled, AJ.

quote:

I think I have a sense of what a terrorist is and I have some examples that I might bring forward but will wait. Would you accept that most acts of terrorism are done by radical Muslims? Or do you find joy slashing my opinions?

I'm not slashing your opinions Geeg, just pointing out that your previous statement was false. Sure the wisecracky way to do it was low. Apologies. I'm from Scotland. Our humour is wierd.

I agree though, if you take your quoted 'terms of terrorism' then yeah, the majority is probably by radical Muslims, but it is not nearly as simple as that.

Terrorism to me would also be the collateral damage to civilian life in warfare and the ruination of lives and/or livliehood from corporate interference and and and.

If you get shot by a soldier or a radical 'terrorist' what is the difference? Moral authority?

My point (yup getting to it) is that moral authority doesn't exist. There are no good guys or bad guys. Merely humans struggling in cycles of violence over numerous complicated ideas, reasons and situations.

A terrorist to you may be a freedom fighter to his own.

A proud and patriotic soldier to you may be an invading killer to his enemy.

Perspectives are important. Unitl we can challenge our own perspectives then we should hold off castigating anothers.

Kind of like removing the splinter from your own eye first.

I'm sure some wise man may have mentioned that somewhere

quote:

Originally posted by GG:

quote:

Originally posted by Strawberry:

quote:

Originally posted by GG:
All acts of terrorism are done by Muslims.

Timothy McVeigh was not a Muslim.

Most of the insurgents in Iraq are Iraqi citizens opposing an invading force (us).

The people who mail anthrax envelopes to Democrats are Americans.

Eric Rudolph is an American Christian.

In sum, there are many terrorists who are not Muslims. But, our policies are indeed creating more terrorists every day, as the Pentagon report recently said.

What do you think is the difference between a terrorist and a criminal?

GG, thanks for changing my mind about not voting this year. I was starting to think there wasn't a big difference between Dems and Republicans, and criminals and terrorists.

I was planning not to vote.

But you have been like a light in a dark, dark room.

I will be casting a straight Democratic ticket this year after all.

Thanks

Strawberry

quote:

I will be casting a straight Democratic ticket this year after all.

Radical Muslims are practicing a violent religion. They protest by rioting, burning, and killing and fail to see their evil. We have a war going on against these savages. They believe the Prophet has told them to bring the world to Allah -- if necessary by the sword. How much easier to conquer us with nuclear warheads from Iran!

War is dreadful. Running up the white flag unfortunately will not put an end to terrorism.
If only it were that simple. Many fail to see their true enemy.

It appears to me that you support those who are armed with only a defeatist mentality. Regaining power is the #1 goal. They have not stated any firm purpose or direction in handling terrorism nor in any other major social issue.

I don't understand your confidence in a party that puts themselves above principles and patriotism.

Without supporting more entitlement programs, can you list two firm intentions by whom you will place your vote that will protect American freedom? I don't think you can, Strawberry.

KennyMac

quote:

Kind of like removing the splinter from your own eye first.

None of us are pure, KennyMac, but we must acknowledge our weaknesses and make a firm intention to root out wrong and desire what is best or better for ourselves and the good of others.

quote:

Terrorism to me would also be the collateral damage to civilian life in warfare and the ruination of lives and/or livliehood from corporate interference and and and.

Than we need to work deligently to improve these areas and elect respresentatives with wholesome values, don't you think?

I think we all need to do a little introspection in order to determine how we contribute to harm and make a firm disposition to change and we will influence those around us.

Distractions are a major interference to developing wholesome character. Public education is another. We allow double standards to exist without a properly formed conscience that desires what is right and expose what is wrong. Evil is being coddled and good is being looked upon an impediment to progress. Dignity of personhood is foreign language.

IMO, automonous self serving one's own truths are violating others' rights to exist. Any sense of goodness is smeared, tarnished, and trampled on.

quote:

My point (yup getting to it) is that moral authority doesn't exist. There are no good guys or bad guys. Merely humans struggling in cycles of violence over numerous complicated ideas, reasons and situations

Do you realy mean that? I sense that you really know that there is right and wrong, good and evil and not merely survival of the fittest. Do you sometimes just rest someplace and enjoy the beauty of the earth created for humanity? Don't you get a sense of transcendence and awe? Do you not know of people who have laid down their lives for others and what motivated them to do so? I think of Maximillian Kolby who died when he offered his life in place of a Jewish father of 5 children during the Jewish holocaust, for instance.


If only it were that easy to walk away and cover our heads from Islamists who spread destruction.

I think we all have a duty to protect life in all its forms and some need to be protected from themselves as in the detainees in Guitmo.

Don't you think each person needs to:

Be vigilant of "right intentions" of each action?

Acquire a firm disposition to protect what is good?

* * * * * * * *
Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.

quote:

Originally posted by GG:
Strawberry

quote:

I will be casting a straight Democratic ticket this year after all.

Radical Muslims are practicing a violent religion. They protest by rioting, burning, and killing and fail to see their evil. We have a war going on against these savages. They believe the Prophet has told them to bring the world to Allah -- if necessary by the sword. How much easier to conquer us with nuclear warheads from Iran!

War is dreadful. Running up the white flag unfortunately will not put an end to terrorism.
If only it were that simple. Many fail to see their true enemy.

It appears to me that you support those who are armed with only a defeatist mentality. Regaining power is the #1 goal. They have not stated any firm purpose or direction in handling terrorism nor in any other major social issue.

I don't understand your confidence in a party that puts themselves above principles and patriotism.

Without supporting more entitlement programs, can you list two firm intentions by whom you will place your vote that will protect American freedom? I don't think you can, Strawberry.

GG, the GOP depends on people like you for its power. Your opinions are not very rationale and you are woefully misinformed. You view the the world exactly as a radical muslim does--that everything is a giant religious war.

I am amazed any Forum would let you continualy post the kind of hate speech that you do here. Your posts are certainly offending every peace-loving Muslim in the USA because it appears you intentionally paint all Muslims as radical and violent.

I think both of you make a valid point.

But as to the peace loving Muslims...for whatever reason, probably out of fear, they aren't doing much to help their image across this country and the rest of the world.

quote:

I don't understand your confidence in a party that puts themselves above principles and patriotism.

Seriously, you need an exorcism to rid yourself of the evil that has you believing that the Republican Party has, more or better, principles and patriotism.

quote:

Radical Muslims are practicing a violent religion. They protest by rioting, burning, and killing and fail to see their evil.

gg, what is the differnce between radical muslims trying to destroy america and radical right wing christians who are bent on forcing their ideology onto others? like others have stated before, timmothy mc vvey wasnt a muslim, the bomber in the atlanta olypmics wasnt a muslim. there are radicals in EVERY religion, be it muslim, christian, protestant, hindu, etc.

to say that muslims have been the only evil religion throughout the years is a big misstatement of the facts. native americans were forced to convert to christianity in the early years of our country. the pope during ww2 did nothing to condemn the killing of millions of jews during the holocaust. christian crusaders have slaughtered thousands of jewish AND muslim settlers in the middle east. no religion is perfect and it is the RADICALS from any religion that give them a bad name. catholic clergy, although not terrorists, have been found guilty in hundreds of sexual assault cases so the arguement can be made that they are evil too.

quote:

It appears to me that you support those who are armed with only a defeatist mentality. Regaining power is the #1 goal. They have not stated any firm purpose or direction in handling terrorism nor in any other major social issue.

I don't understand your confidence in a party that puts themselves above principles and patriotism.

it seems to me that KEEPING power is the #1 goal of the gop. as for handling terrorism, the current policies of our administration has only INCREASED the amount of jihadists bent on our destruction. Majority leader Bill Frist now wants to REINSTALL the taliban back into the afghan government. how is reinstating a bunch of radicals that we have just overthrew going to help the sercurity of our nation? wouldnt that leave us right where we were before 911?

as for the comment on patriotism, i believe there is nothing that says patriot more than defending the rights of the down trodden, the weak, and speaking out against a government that has no regards for the santity of human lives. a true patriot will condemn his own government if that government abuses its power and forces its will onto the people. that is the reason why we left the british empire in the first place. and how can you justify the current administrations stance on things such as "free speech zones"? what good is a democracy if one is not trully free to express ones views in public, especially if it opposes any policy of the current administration?

as for principles, where was the gop principles last year when hastert knew of the improper emails bewteen foley and the young page? where where the principles when bush and company got involved in the terry shrivo case here in florida ,(bush wanted to err 'on the side of human life), yet had no regards for the thousands of innocents killed in the 'shock and awe' campaign in the beginning stages of the iraqi war?

im not saying that the democrats are saints or have better values but the current administration certainly has little real principles.

Strawberry

quote:

Your posts are certainly offending every peace-loving Muslim in the USA because it appears you intentionally paint all Muslims as radical and violent.

In your desperation you purposely MISquote me. Let me repeat what I have said once again for the record - NOT all Muslims are Islamofascists or radicals.

BTW, what are the peace loving Muslims doing to root out the 'sleeper cells' in the US?

quote:

what good is a democracy if one is not trully free to express ones views in public,

Will you kindly ask for me moderator, bill king that same question?

just wondering gg, what did bill king do to you? if he censored you for a violation of the rules then he had all the right to do so. but if you followed the rules and he censored you in some way, shape, or form, then he was in the wrong.

i believe that any kind of censorship, from online blogs to media is not right (unless there is good reason like anti-semitism, racism, or personal threats). a government that censors what they dont like usually has something to hide. i for one, am 100% against the "free speech zones" that usually follow the president in his travels. i find it unconstitutional that pro-bush supporters get a front line view of the president and his convoy, but protesters and dissentors are often told to leave the area, arrested by the secret service, or are forced to give up their anti-bush signs or t-shirts. this is the worst kind of censorship as it amounts to only letting one side give their opinions. most of the time it is a propaganda ploy by the bush administation to paint a rosier picture of what is really occurring.

as for bill king, i dont know the story behind what happened between the 2 of you so you would have to elaborate for me.

ftmyersfisherman

quote:

no religion is perfect

For clarification it is PEOPLE in the name of religion who have committed evil acts against humanity.

quote:

what is the differnce between radical muslims trying to destroy america and radical right wing christians who are bent on forcing their ideology onto others?

You are making a very poor comparison of radical right wing christians and radical muslims. Look at what happend to YOUNG GIRLS:

Last October, three Christian schoolgirls were attacked with machetes and beheaded on their way to classes on the island of Sulawesi

Hezbollah described Jews and Americans as "diseased."

A recent Study of Global Anti-Semitism by two Yale University scholars has shown that a European Muslim was 800% more likely to harbor overtly anti-Semitic attitudes than a European who was not a member of the religion of peace.

Stephen Steinlight was a director of education at the U.S. Holocaust Museum, reports there are an average of 12 assaults a day by Muslims on Parisian Jews -- .

Radical Muslims' interpretation of the Koran are fomenting hatred of Jews, describing them as evil incarnate, are inciting genocide, and have a firm intention of wiping Israel off the face of the earth!!!!!!!!!!

This quotation from radical jihardist should make you want to vomit, "the enemies of Allah are descendants of apes and pigs."

More later.

quote:

Hezbollah described Jews and Americans as "diseased."

yes, and hezbollah is a radical group. tell me something i didnt know. btw many other cultures and races also practice hate towards jews and americans. most of the nazis (if any) in ww2 were not muslim. they were white caucasians. they hated the jews and ANYONE not of german decent, which included the russians, british, and even the americans.

quote:

You are making a very poor comparison of radical right wing christians and radical muslims. Look at what happend to YOUNG GIRLS:

Last October, three Christian schoolgirls were attacked with machetes and beheaded on their way to classes on the island of Sulawesi

do attacks happen on christians overseas? they probably do. although this may be true, after the 911 attacks, there were also a huge backlash against the muslims living here in the states, the vast majority who had no connection to a radical group. they were targets of hate crimes only because of their religion. people here in the states also get targeted by the color of their skin, clothes, and religion all the time and it is not right.

and i believe it was katherine harris, the same harris who was partly responsible for the recount fiasco in 2000, who recently said "any vote for a non christian is a vote for sin". in my mind, this type of biased and narrow minded thinking is no differnt that the radicals who want americans dead.

is the jihadist's holy war against america or non islams in generals any differnt than bush professing in the state of the union address in 2003:
“With the might of God on our side we will triumph over Iraq. God will watch over our troops and grant us a victory over the threat of Saddam’s army. God will bless us and keep us safe in the coming battle.”

to me this sounds no diffent than the holy war professed by the radical muslims. bush's statement, especially to other religions and cultures, could be taken as a holy war against iraq or islam.

quote:

This quotation from radical jihardist should make you want to vomit, "the enemies of Allah are descendants of apes and pigs."

how is that quote from a radical jihadist ANY differnt from the one posted below, spoken by a radical christian cnservative named George W. Bush (in a national televised event no less)(state of the union address in 2003)

“With the might of God on our side we will triumph over Iraq. God will watch over our troops and grant us a victory over the threat of Saddam’s army. God will bless us and keep us safe in the coming battle.”

replace the words God with Allah, the word Iraq with America, and the word Saddam with Bush. how is that ANY differnt from the radical muslims?

By word and deed for the last 25 years, the tyrannical ruling class of the Islamicofascists have shown itself willing to murder Americans, murder Israelis, and murder anyone who threatens its illegitimate and corrupt rule, including Muslims who wish to live as free men and women.

The nature and history of the Iranian regime,for instance have been inventing, creating, funding, training, and operating the most dangerous terrorist organization in the world.


Have you forgotten:

the attack on the U.S. Marine barracks in October 1983 that resulted in the death of 241 American servicemen. It was the largest non-nuclear explosion that had ever been detonated on earth, with a force of between 15,000 to 21,000 pounds of TNT;

the Khobar Towers bombing in 1996 that killed 19 American Servicemen and one Saudi national;

the murder of hundreds of Israelis in suicide bombings;

the assassination of four leaders of the Democratic Party of Iranian Kurdistan, an Iranian dissident group;

the bombing of the Buenos Aires Jewish community center in 1994;

3,000 innocent people in New York, Pennsylvania, and Washington, D.C.

This is only a few of the incidences of the irreconcilable radical Muslims who believe in a strikingly different world then the one we believe. It is an uncivilized and barbaric world. They cannot peacefully coexist with the civilized world.

I am grateful that Pres. Bush understands the nature of the world's enemy. No Strawberry, I do not worship Pres. Bush. I have listed areas I considered he has fallen short, one of which is to not close up the borders in the US and ALSO the borders in Iraqi.

Defense News

* * * * * * * *
Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.

quote:

how is that ANY differnt from the radical muslims?

Our President does not demand that women and children strap on bombs

Our President does not put a gun to someones head to convert to his faith

Our President does not allow committing evil sexual atrocities on American little girls

Our President does not pay a family to hand over their young son promising him that 72 virgins in the next life if he blows himself and others to smithereens.

Our President does not order planes filled with innocent people to fly into buildings killing thousands

nor throw people off decks of ship, chop off hands, emasculate little boys, throw people off three story buildings, have rape rooms, torture his own people, promise to wipe Israel off the face of the earth and threaten to take over the world.

I know there is more, but that's all I can think of now.

quote:

3,000 innocent people in New York, Pennsylvania, and Washington, D.C.

GG you are skirting my question on how bush is no differnt from the radical muslims..and by the way, im not strawberry. and you are also forgetting about the TENS OF THOUSANDS of INNOCENT iraqis who have died as a result of our invasion. or is it that their lives dont count because they are not american or from a differnt culture?

yes the whole world should be condemning the attacks of americans and democratic supporters. radicalism has no part in todays society. but to justify the killing of over 10,000 innocent iraqis to satisfy a vendeda bush had with saddam is also uncalled for and should be condemned by the entire world.

quote:

This is only a few of the incidences of the irreconcilable radical Muslims who believe in a strikingly different world then the one we believe. It is an uncivilized and barbaric world. They cannot peacefully coexist with the civilized world

it also seems to me that the bush administration also believes in a world vastly differnt from the one we live in. bush ALSO cannot peacefully coexist with the rest of the world, forcing western ideology onto cultures vastly differnt from our own. also what bush states to the press, especially on the current state of affairs in iraq, is akin to living in an alternate reality. the world as a WHOLE has seen MORE terrorist bombing and attacks since bush started his illegal war in iraq. with every innocent civilain killed in iraq, 2 more jihadists are stepping up to destroy america. it seems to me, that the american people are going to get the raw end of this deal when its all said and done.

quote:

people here in the states also get targeted by the color of their skin, clothes, and religion all the time and it is not right.

Take a look at the mocking going on towards Condaleeza Rice in the "Republican Family Values" thread.

Have you had a chance to visit this major cover up by the Margaret Sanger cohoerts incoroporated paid by yours and my tax dollars, btw????

You bet it is not right!

You have targeted alot of things today. Too much to keep us with and one of which I wish you would check further is that the Pope and Catholic Church DID NOT let downt the Jews during the Jewish holocaust. I gave one reference of a Catholic martyr to KenneyMac, Maximillian Kolbe, a Catholic Priest; there are many more if your interested in discussing it.

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catholic clergy, although not terrorists, have been found guilty in hundreds of sexual assault cases so the arguement can be made that they are evil too.

Sin is evil, I agree and I am totally embarrassed for these sins of Catholic clergy.

BTW, do you remember in 2000 Pope Paul II asked for forgivesness of all the sins committed by people in the Church since its institution 2000 years ago? Sadly, no one reciprocated. He also kissed the Koran. Have you forgotten his call for peace and denouncing the war in Iraq?

Pope Benedict XVI has made a plea to stop the violence and has asked Arab countries to allow Christians to worship in safety.

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Our President does not allow committing evil sexual atrocities on American little girls

but he allows sexual advances by members of congress onto little american boys. under HIS watch and from his own party no less.

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Our President does not order planes filled with innocent people to fly into buildings killing thousands

but he authorizes the sending of war planes which kills many more thousands of innicent civilians

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Our President does not order planes filled with innocent people to fly into buildings killing thousands

but he authorizes american planes to fly people, who are often innocent, to other nations so they can be tortured.

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nor throw people off decks of ship, chop off hands, emasculate little boys, throw people off three story buildings, have rape rooms, torture his own people, promise to wipe Israel off the face of the earth and threaten to take over the world.

but he DOES authorize torture and the dismantlment of the geneva code. his administration is also accused of telling the pakistan leader we "will bomb them to the stone age" if they didnt participate in the hunt for terrorists. as for taking over the world, remember his infamous "either you are with us or with the terrorists". sounds like a mandate to control the world to me.

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dismantlment of the geneva code.

The geneva convention was never intended to protect enemy combatants.

I know you are not Strawberry, you name is too long to keep going back to copy & past and I can't remember how you spell it.

Pres. Bush did not authorize the activities of Foley. You are doing a real stretch here. You are not supporting your threats of Pres. Bush, and are taking them out of context,I think. One thing is certain, no one plea bargains with evil.

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but he authorizes american planes to fly people, who are often innocent, to other nations so they can be tortured

War is awful. Pres. Bush does not build his military defenses and arsenal within densely populated civiian areas, schools and hospitals to kill innocents and get the world's sympathy as Hezbollah did in Lebannon.

Pres. Bush does not kidnap enemy soldiers in order to start a jihard.

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under HIS watch and from his own party no less.

I don't think you really want to compare sexual improprieties of each political party, do you?

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The geneva convention was never intended to protect enemy combatants

while this is true, under the guidelines that the bush administration have implimented, the term "enemy combatants" can include but is not limited to: anyone the FBI,CIA,or federal marshals DEEMS to have terrorist connections, aids terrorists groups, or an enemy of the united states. these charges, in many cases, have been leveled against many innocent people (including our own citizens), without any evidence of the charges against them. they can be detained at an undisclosed location for an undetermined amount of time, without legal representation, and often without even being told why they are being held. over 14,000 people have been held in this manner since 911.

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War is awful. Pres. Bush does not build his military defenses and arsenal within densely populated civiian areas, schools and hospitals to kill innocents and get the world's sympathy as Hezbollah did in Lebannon

that statement is true in the sense that while he DOESNT build his military defences in densely populated areas, he has no problem authorizing the bombing and attacking of such areas. one exception to this is the Green Zone, located in the heart of bahgdad. this "safe zone" for american interests are a target for terrorists and insurgents and its proximity inside bahgdad leads to more civilian deaths than if it was located outside a major populated area. and during the 'shock and awe' stage of the invasion, the majority of the infrastructure in the city was destroyed. this included hospitals, schools, electric plants, and other civilian areas.

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I don't think you really want to compare sexual improprieties of each political party, do you?

the democrats, like i have stated earlier, are no stranger to scandal themselves. my reply was in regard to this comment you posted earier: Our President does not allow committing evil sexual atrocities on American little girls

and i would really like a reply in regards to the statement bush made during the state of union address in 2003. invoking his religious beliefs while addressing an issue like invading another country WOULD have others in the world that this is a christian vs islam war.

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Too much to keep us with and one of which I wish you would check further is that the Pope and Catholic Church DID NOT let downt the Jews during the Jewish holocaust. I gave one reference of a Catholic martyr to KenneyMac, Maximillian Kolbe, a Catholic Priest; there are many more if your interested in discussing it.

yes, there were catholics and even germans helping the jews during the holocaust, often at risk of their own lives. in my statement i meant to say that the pope did not PUBLICLY condemn the actions of the nazis during ww2. there are many possible reasons for this, some im sure was political in nature. if pope Pius HAD openly condemned it, most likely nazi germany would have taken action against the neutrality of the vatican at the time.

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Do you realy mean that? I sense that you really know that there is right and wrong, good and evil and not merely survival of the fittest. Do you sometimes just rest someplace and enjoy the beauty of the earth created for humanity? Don't you get a sense of transcendence and awe?

GG. I know only what right and wrong means for ME. I'll tell you this though, it seems different from yours. You seem to think that its ok to kill people of violence, not really grasping that then you YOURSELF then become a person of violence ..... thus the cycle continues. I think if we truly desire peace, then we must find it within ourselves first.

Is that not a teaching of the Catholic faith?

As for admiring the beauty of life. I do it all the time.

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War is awful. Pres. Bush does not build his military defenses and arsenal within densely populated civiian areas, schools and hospitals to kill innocents and get the world's sympathy as Hezbollah did in Lebannon.

So why do you still support war if it's awful?

As for Bush not building his defences and arsenal near civilian areas. Is that supposed to mean anything? Are you trying to suggest that this is compassion in action?



Honestly GG, I find your logic amusingly baffling.

fisherman

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in my statement i meant to say that the pope did not PUBLICLY condemn the actions of the nazis during ww2. there are many possible reasons for this, some im sure was political in nature. if pope Pius HAD openly condemned it, most likely nazi germany would have taken action against the neutrality of the vatican at the time.

The Pope could not publicly condemn because in retaliation, more Jewish people would have been exterminated as well as Polish, Hungarians - - - people. Maybe someday I will study it more.
People seen to find enjoyment attacking the Church on this issue. The Vatican was not nor continues to be during this time 'neutral'. The Vatican is influential in world affairs and if you do not think so a nun died recently in retaliation for the current Pope's plea for peace. She spoke words of forgiveness as she died.

Another example is Edith Stein, a Jewish lady converted to Catholicism, became a religious and was martryd during Jewish holocaust.

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and i would really like a reply in regards to the statement bush made during the state of union address in 2003. invoking his religious beliefs while addressing an issue like invading another country WOULD have others in the world that this is a christian vs islam war.

Please give me a substantiated reference.

fisherman

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anyone the FBI,CIA,or federal marshals DEEMS to have terrorist connections, aids terrorists groups, or an enemy of the united states. these charges, in many cases, have been leveled against many innocent people (including our own citizens), without any evidence of the charges against them. they can be detained at an undisclosed location for an undetermined amount of time, without legal representation, and often without even being told why they are being held. over 14,000 people have been held in this manner since 911.

Your sympathies are disjointed. The detainees, enemy combatants, none should forget have a body, soul and spirit as all of humanity. They deserve dignity of personhood as in all humanbeings.

Sometimes people need to be restrained for the well being of the rest of civilization. If laws are imperfect then we have a responsibility to change them. Our sensitivities and sensibilities need to have a common sense approach.

They ARE BEING TREATED MOST GENEROUSLY IN GUITMO, better than they have ever known for most. Rehabilitation does not seem to work in our own prison system and we have a super large problem what do to with the detainees. Psychodynamos are doing us a major disservice.

KennyMac

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Honestly GG, I find your logic amusingly baffling.

OK, I'll work on it, later.

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and i would really like a reply in regards to the statement bush made during the state of union address in 2003. invoking his religious beliefs while addressing an issue like invading another country WOULD have others in the world that this is a christian vs islam war.



Please give me a substantiated reference.

ok GG im posting this quote by bush for the 3 TIME now. i really like your selective reading as u have replied to other things i posted in the same reply. heres the bush quote FROM THE 2003 STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS:

“With the might of God on our side we will triumph over Iraq. God will watch over our troops and grant us a victory over the threat of Saddam’s army. God will bless us and keep us safe in the coming battle.”

now do you see how this can be interpretted by iraqis (most who are muslim) as a holy war of christiananity vs islam? here ill repeat it again just so u dont miss it:

“With the might of God on our side we will triumph over Iraq. God will watch over our troops and grant us a victory over the threat of Saddam’s army. God will bless us and keep us safe in the coming battle.”

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Your sympathies are disjointed. The detainees, enemy combatants, none should forget have a body, soul and spirit as all of humanity. They deserve dignity of personhood as in all humanbeings.

Sometimes people need to be restrained for the well being of the rest of civilization. If laws are imperfect then we have a responsibility to change them. Our sensitivities and sensibilities need to have a common sense approach.

They ARE BEING TREATED MOST GENEROUSLY IN GUITMO, better than they have ever known for most. Rehabilitation does not seem to work in our own prison system and we have a super large problem what do to with the detainees. Psychodynamos are doing us a major disservice.

what if the reason the people are being detained is unfounded and the bush administration DOESNT want to change the laws?

and by being treated generously, if you mean no access to legal representation, no charges filed against them, being detained indefinitly with little possible hope for a fair trial, being deprived sleep, put into extreme temperature controlled rooms, then yes, you are correct.

I PERSONALLY know of a man from my local area who used to own a general store here in town. after 911, he was detained, illegally, for 9 months. he was an american citizen, born and raised here, targeted only because of his religion. he spent 9 months in a secret location without his family knowing where he was, was denied legal repesentation, and without charges being leveled against him. during this time, his name was tarnished, he lost his business, and recieved NO compensation from the government for their gastapo-type actions. now repeat this process on another 13,999 individuals. how can u not see the moral and legal wrongfulness of these actions?

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The Vatican is influential in world affairs and if you do not think so a nun died recently in retaliation for the current Pope's plea for peace. She spoke words of forgiveness as she died.

the united states is just as influental. many innocent iraqis have also called for peace but have died in retailiation because of our presence there. your logic to me seems very flaws GG. you condone the killing of innocents by terrorists and extremist groups like hezbollah, but seem to have no problem with the over 10,000 iraqi civilians who have died in the last 3.5 years (the vast majority were killed by american bombs, not terrorist bombs).

KennyMac

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So why do you still support war if it's awful?

Arguments for and against the Iraq War cannot be sorted out to come to an infallible conclusion. Good people support both positions.

Arlington Cemetery in Washington, DC is a witness to the freedom to choose in the US. Have they all died in vain? I hope not, though I believe some of our politicians would like to cover the graves with sunflowers like Hilter did to the Jewish cemeteries.

Criticism for our President not to go to war is responsible citizenship provided the critics sincerely UNintends to thwart freedom and democracy, and those who do oppose the war are not entangled with those who want inalienable - God given rights - destroyed, - denied the US citizens.

In defense of Pres. Bush and invasion:

Democrat Senators are on record stating the threat to the world Suddam Hussein was and his building up of WMDs - I can provide the list of senators and their statements if you want.

Weapons of mass destruction have been found
The drive-by media refuse to talk about it. Do you want more references to the discovery of WMDs?

For about 20 years Arab Muslims have been attacking and killing Americans. It was not until 9/11 that it FInALLY got our attention as their native countrymen danced and celebrated in the streets.

There is also the 'just war theory' that some Catholic theologians consider is applicable in this war.

Islamofascists want to take over the US. Stuck in the 7th century radical Islamists do not desire peace. We have no choice but to stand and defend civilization as we know it. Innocent civilians dying should cause us all to weep and wail for their loss, and pray for the WISDOM to overcome the evil.

* * * * * * * *
Without traditional regular moral principles that may be consulted confidently, justice cannot long endure anywhere.

GG you still havent responded to the comments bush made during his state of union address in 2003. so i will post it for the 5th time

“With the might of God on our side we will triumph over Iraq. God will watch over our troops and grant us a victory over the threat of Saddam’s army. God will bless us and keep us safe in the coming battle.”

perhaps now i can get a response since you keep dodging this one quote

fisherman

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“With the might of God on our side we will triumph over Iraq. God will watch over our troops and grant us a victory over the threat of Saddam’s army. God will bless us and keep us safe in the coming battle.”

I am not backing down from your challenges. If I do not answer you it is because of time constraint and it is not because of purposeful selectiveness. However, some of these things I need time to ponder, and some things I just don't know how to answer you, fisherman.(can't tell you what they are right now.)

Be persistent and I will attempt to do my best to respond.

Something is wrong with that prayer, fisherman. I don't know of a Christian who would pray in the manner that directs God. A prayer is for direction from Him.

I really believe Pres. Bush prayed something more like this:

Lord, we ASK that you would - - - - Watch over our loved ones, -- and protect our troops Almighty Father - - - We ASK that you would grant us victory - - - keep our intentions pure and honorable, and may YOUR will be done - - - NOT OURS, in Your Precious Name, we pray. Amen!

I'll post more later today. Let me know your thoughts.

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I really believe Pres. Bush prayed something more like this:

Lord, we ASK that you would - - - - Watch over our loved ones, -- and protect our troops Almighty Father - - - We ASK that you would grant us victory - - - keep our intentions pure and honorable, and may YOUR will be done - - - NOT OURS, in Your Precious Name, we pray. Amen!

that is contrary what what bush ACTUALLY said. i did not change the quote of what he said. he said it exactly as i posted it. what you wrote is opposite of what bush ACTUALLY stated. can you now see why the muslims hate us more than ever? according to bush, we are fighting a holy war against iraq. it sickens me that our elected leader would make such a comment, especially during the state of the union address, which is broadcast on most major networks in the country (and a few abroad im sure)