Let this serve as a lesson to all the starry-eyed do-gooders who think they can convert the barbarians.

"Is America in Decline?" by Paul Kennedy is available at
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2007/12/211063.php

"When the changing tides of history turned against them, some superpowers showed remarkable powers of adjustment and resistance. The real question is whether America is capable of a policy that moderates the effects of relative decline, a policy of smart relative decline."

"America's exceptionalism will inevitably collide with global forces that are stronger."

Sawdust

quote:

Nurdin T.

Question. I don't recall you expressing an opinion about the teacher and the teddy bear. What is it?

You're evading the issue. Unsuccessfully, because I caught you at it.

FTR, I think the people wanting a death sentence, or any sentence at all, for an insult of a religion, which, incidentally wasn't an insult no matter how you spin it, and if it were, it wasn't commited by the teacher, is ****ing insane. As far as I'm concerned, this reaction is really childish and immature, and demonstrates a substantial insecurity regarding their culture and religion; after all, if one is certain of one's self, no insult can get to you, and most certainly not to the extent that these people got worked up about it. Added to that, they make a strategic mistake, becuase this level of intolerance will inadvertedly lead to no good. So on any level that I can think of, this is rediculous.

Of course, they are only asking for the death of one person, as opposed to Slabmaster, who is calling for the death of an entire continent; also a strategic mistake, I might add, because there's shit there we need.

Does that answer your evasion, and if so, can we now get back to the tiny little matter of genocide, proposed a a nicely appropriate response to said insecurity? Thank you.

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A crowd of [Moslem] Somalis beat the body of an Ethiopian soldier as it is dragged in the streets of Somalia's capital on November 8, 2007. Full story

quote:

The oldest al-Qaeda training camp in Africa, Ras Kamboni, is perched on Somalia's southeastern tip, surrounded by swampy jungle that makes it as inaccessible as the hill caves of Tora Bora in Afghanistan. Radical groups like al-Itihaad al-Islamiya, funded and trained by foreign militants supplied by Osama bin Laden, have been in Somalia for years. The same bin Laden T shirts that fill Pakistan's bazaars are sold in the markets along Kenya's Indian Ocean coast.

Wow. Now THERE'S a relevant point if I ever saw one.

quote:

You're evading the issue. Unsuccessfully, because I caught you at it.

I wasn't evading anything, I was just asking a question.

quote:

Personally, I think that the teddy bear, the Dutch cartoons and threats against Salman Rushdie rely on a population which is largely un or under educated. It's why Sudanese ran through the streets with machetes wanting to cut off the teachers head but the diplomats, who by the way released her today, were more moderate.

Interesting. Remind you of another population, maybe? You know, folks being uneducated, calling for nuclear attacks (without appreciating the massive amounts of "resources" grabbed from the territory that's to be nuked, meaning they're screwing themselves in the ass — all that leaving unmentioned mass death, disease, destruction), calling cartoons which have enjoyed a splendid media coverage "Dutch" rather than "Danish", believing racism ended with the Emancipation Proclamation. Collective livid insanity, Osama did it then Saddam did it but it doesn't matter because that war isn't about control of resources anyway, France is evil, Freedom Fries (TM), desperate kids emptying their (sic) guns in schools, ghettos, lynchmobs, nukes, yay? Y'know? Does it?

It doesn't remind me of anything; I have no opinion whatsoever. I'm not calling anyone a blind Nazism commodifier either, for that matter. I am just asking a question.

quote:

I wasn't evading anything, I was just asking a question.

Sure.

May I now ask you a question: where do you stand on genocide/ecocide/xenocide?

I'm asking, because so far, you seem to have been apologizing for it, if not endorsing it.

Just a question, mind you. No hidden agenda or anything.

quote:

Just a question, mind you. No hidden agenda or anything

Yea Right....

quote:

I'm not calling anyone a blind Nazism commodifier either, for that matter.

That's very good, because that would be an insult, and that's against the terms of service.

Or so I hear.

quote:

Originally posted by Nurdin T.:


Slabmaster,

The question was, what do you feel excuses your call for genocide?

What makes you think I feel the need to be excused?
I said if they want to take hostages, they should face the responsibility of their actions. I have my way, you probably have yours.
I won't lose sleep if yours is wrong.

Slabmaster

Tell me if I'm wrong.
I had a poster once that whined relentlessly over the US law known as the “Hague invasion act.” That the US would actually have a plan made up to invade Holland to retrieve kidnapped US citizens being tried by the kangaroo court the ICC (international criminal court). His high pitched squeals were intolerable on why the US would point Guns are the poor drug hazed people of Holland. He could grasp the concept that you people as a whole willingly advocated the kidnapping/trial and punishment of US citizen and did you expect the US to do nothing to retrieve it’s citizens. I for one greatly appreciate a country that actively says do not screw with our citizens. To this day I do not believe Holland has kidnapped any US citizens.

I see common denominators.
People or countries that engage in hostage taking and murdering of innocents should be held accountable.
I know the pacifists amongst us will cry that the US does these things as well. I'm aware.
I think we need to deal with the psychos first and then we can critique ourselves.

If I was the King of England, my message to the people of Sudan would be:

"You have psychos that run amok and have put you in a risky position. You need to eradicate those psychos before we have to. If you fail to eradicate them within the next 24 hours, my advice is to move as quickly as possible to the nearest non-psycho run country. We like you folks, please get out of the way soon."

Well Thank God your not King of England. God help us all.

I thought the government of England gave enough hinted overtures to convey a subtle point to the Sudanese. I thought a more telling outcome from the process was the silence from US based women’s rights groups. At minimum you would think those groups would at least offer a pre typed form letter of their outrage “fill in the blank”. But probably with most Human Rights group, nobody gives a shit unless the US is the intended Target

Seems that way doesn't it?

You are onto something with the form letter of outrage. Sounds efficient.

That is called "copy and paste discussion", and it looks like this:

quote:

Wow. Now THERE'S a relevant point if I ever saw one.

Slabmaster,

quote:

I have my way, you probably have yours.
I won't lose sleep if yours is wrong.

LOL, this rather funny to me. I'll help you along, because you seem lost: we're not talking about whatever you feel is 'my way', and whether or not it's 'wrong', whatever that means. We're talking about YOUR way, being genocide/excocide, and what would happen not if but when THAT turns out to be wrong, which in that case very specifically means the loss of millions of lives, human and non human, innocent and guilty, without trial, which you claim you find troubling but apperently really don't, the loss of an entire continent, the loss of all of its resources. All because you had to get your gun off.

In addition:

quote:

People or countries that engage in hostage taking and murdering of innocents should be held accountable.

LOL, I think we can now all see the blatant hypocrisy there.

So, Slabmaster, as it turns out, not only you completely lost this argument, but on your way down, also you signed your own death sentence. (No - still not a death threat. Sorry )

Oh, I just realize:

quote:

I have my way, you probably have yours.
I won't lose sleep if yours is wrong.

Apparently, you DO, buddy. Why else can't you just let the whole thing go?

quote:

May I now ask you a question: where do you stand on genocide/ecocide/xenocide?

I asked you first. If you don't want to express an opinion about how the teacher was treated, just say it. I'll answer your question after I get a response.

quote:

un-named source-
Here's a funny one. Apparently our deluded chum still hasn't figured out that MXXXX is dead.

BTW> Can you say "Rodeo Clown"?

in reference to this post

O... I think I can Say Rodeo clown. Although not the words I would have chosen to describe you. As far as your bold proclamation, News to me, unless Heaven has internet access with proxies.

Sawdust,

quote:

I asked you first. If you don't want to express an opinion about how the teacher was treated, just say it. I'll answer your question after I get a response.

LOL, some might see it as a personal insult to be asked a question, and upon answering not being paid attention to. "Discussion" implies exchange. (Although some would say that discussion implies threats and nukes.) And yes - you guessed it: to be in an exchange, one will have to take note of what the other person says. Reading in this case, is a 'must'.

On a related subject, perhaps we can take this opportunity to point out the substantial lack in reading skills exposed by many on this thread? Many seem to be unable to grasp even the most basic concepts. Like: if you want to retaliate a kidnap, would it be

a. a GOOD idea to bomb the hell out of the kidnappers while the kidnappee is still in their custody,

or

b. NOT such a good idea after all?

(hint: if you are unsure of what I'm getting at here, I would advice you NOT to take the bait on that one; unless, of course, you don't mind making yourself look like a total idiot.)

In addition, the old "I asked you first" kiddy game should be long behind you by now.

So, now that you realize that I in fact answered your evasion - oops, question - you can safely answer mine without having to be afraid to give away all your precious opinions without any leverage.

Thank you.

You are absolutely right and I'm sorry I skipped over your response. Don't know why I didn't pay attention to it. Perhaps at a certain point we stopped communicating. That point may have been the sentence about evading the issue although I don't know what the edit was.

Now I guess you wonder if I'm in favor of genocide. No.

You should know that I posted something on this board prior to the war in Iraq about the fact that I opposed it on un-humanitarian grounds. My opinion at the time was that Saddam was someone else's tyrant. I was and am unwilling to involve our country in domestic genocide in other countries.

Having said that, if we break something, I think we are obligated to fix it. While I didn't think starting the war was right, I don't think that leaving them vulnerable to their neighbors is right either.

Wow, and honest reply

I expected anything, but not that. Okay, Sawdust, thank you, that's very decent of you.

Regarding the war - I agree. We can't just pick up our shit and leave. But my rather fierce debate wasn't about that, it was about the call for genocide by means of one hundred nukes as an answer to the so-spun kidnap of one school teacher.

Iraq is a different matter. I'm sure we'll converse on that one at some point, but not today if it's all the same to you.

quote:

Originally posted by Nurdin T.:



Apparently, you DO, buddy. Why else can't you just let the whole thing go?

Too much fun watching you salivate like Pavlovs dog.
The declaration of victory is right on que. LOL!

Slabmaster,

Ah, so you're not in it for the debate, after all? Just yell some sound bytes, and get people all worked up? That your thing?

First of all, if that's true, you're not a man. You don't take responsibility, not for your words, and not for your actions, not even for your proposed actions.

Second, if that's true, you should be glad, because if your yapping is meant to pass for 'debate', you stink at it. You pretty much lost every talking point you so sadly tried to push. Man, if you are a model conservative, we can pretty much end the debate right here and now.

Third, you're right: victory IS right on q. Just not the way you understand it. I'll gladly hand you the Victory you apparently so deperately need.

Here it is.

Incidentally, don't you think that this method of maintaining your dignity hands an irrisponsibly large amount of power to your perceived antagonist?

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You're a drama queen.