As a conservative, a paleo-conservative to be precise, I'm at a loss to understand why liberals support Shrillery Clinton. She voted for the war in Irag (then she does the forked-tonque about-face to mollify antiwar democrats), she gets way more money than anyone else from the military contractors, and to top it all off the owner of FOX (FAUX) News has been holding fund-raisers (this alone speaks volumes) for her for the past couple of years. When are you liberals going to wake up to Hitllery Clinton, she will say or do anything to become president. She's an amoral power-hungry war-monger who would sell her soul to the devil (if he'd have it) to gain power.
Posts: 19 | Location: Rockville,Maryland | Registered: 14 July 2007
Swiftboating? Oh, you mean tell the truth about her like the vets did about Kerry. Sure don't want anyone telling the truth about this marxist clinton. Thats for sure.
Posts: 27 | Location: USofA | Registered: 24 October 2007
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
Mikester posted: "As a conservative, a paleo-conservative to be precise, I'm at a loss to understand why liberals support Shrillery Clinton. She voted for the war in Irag (then she does the forked-tonque about-face to mollify antiwar democrats), she gets way more money than anyone else from the military contractors, and to top it all off the owner of FOX (FAUX) News has been holding fund-raisers (this alone speaks volumes) for her for the past couple of years. When are you liberals going to wake up to Hitllery Clinton, she will say or do anything to become president. She's an amoral power-hungry war-monger who would sell her soul to the devil (if he'd have it) to gain power."
This is a 100% accurate assessment of Shrillary. Congrats to a paleo-con for having been so astute, as opposed to the inanity of DisplayName.
I still haven't fully explored the swift-boating story. It appears that Kerry spent a partial tour in Vietnam. I'm no fan of Kerry but at least John Kerry made it to Vietnam (that's more than you can say for BuSh). I don't trust either political party. I think both of them have sold us out. We didn't have much of a choice for President in the last election. Bush and Kerry: both Skull and Bonesmen, both related to the royal families of Europe, and they; I believe are 2nd or 3rd cousins. Our elections, particularly presidential elections are rigged. When you have former CIA agents working for Diebold, the company that counted the votes in Ohio (a state that Kerry obviously won)you know that an honest count won't occur. After the election Kerry rolls over and concedes the election, that's when you know that Kerry was a "controlled candidate".
Maybe Kerry might have been a better president, it's hard to imagine anyone worse than Bush.
You may have been too hard on DisplayName. I understand his reservations about Kerry, and numerous statements by Hillary lead me to believe she has Socialist if not Marxist leanings.
Posts: 19 | Location: Rockville,Maryland | Registered: 14 July 2007
Mikester: recent developments have Kerry taking T. Boone Pickens upon his offer of $1 mil. for disproving any part of the swift boat campaign, so now T. Boone is hedging and qualifying the challenge.
As for Hillary, I'd do a google of
The Economist Mark Penn
which I think would lead to a recent profile of Mark Penn. It is said "he bristles at any suggestion of populism" (let alone socialism or marxism). And he pretty much controls content in Hillary's campaign.
And I'd say Hillary would pretty much follow her husband's lead on policy (a long way from socialism).
As for DisplayName, he's a racist scumbag. Screw him. Check his posts about first nations' history.
Mark Penn works for Clinton as her chief statigest, he's going to say what ever he thinks make her popular.
As for Pickens, he's got Kerry in a box because he's asked him to release all his military records. One of the charges against Kerry was that he got a purple heart for a small cut on his ass. Left to Kerry, nobody will ever know if that's true.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
Unless we delve into the David Icke-type conspiracies in which it is alleged that capitalists brought Lenin to power.
I doubt it.[/QUOTE]
Although David Icke is "out there" on several subjects he is more right than wrong on most issues. The Global-Elite financed the Fascists as well as the Communists. Totalitarianism is a tool used by the Elites (Rockefellers, Rothschilds, the Royal Families of Europe) to keep people under control. It's been proven that Wall Street bought the Bolsheviks to power,and we all know about W's Grandfather Prescott BuSh financing Hitler.
I equate Nazism with Communism. My liberal friends wince at the comparison, but frankly I can't see any difference: they murder people by the tens of millions,they put huge swaths of their indigenous populations in concentration camps (gulags), they both goose step in military parades, and they put their respective populations in a kind of totalitarian serfdom.
C'mon our government financed Castro and put him in power. Then when he announces his allegiance to the Soviet Union our gov't and State Department(long infested with Communist spies) feign surprise and cry crocodile tears. We could have taken out castro any time we wanted to. We could have launched our invasion from Guantonamo Bay Base and the Cuban people being fed up with living under the butchery and slavery under Castro would have risen up in support. It is important to keep a Communist "boogie man" just off our Southern coast to frighten the American taxpayer to fund the Military Industrial complex in this phony cold war. David Rockefeller sang the praises of Chairman Mao in his autobiography, if the capitalists hated the Communists so much then why are they enriching Red China with all our industries. You have to look at the "big picture", things happen for a reason.
Both Clinton's are very much Socialists/Communists. They aren't stupid. They aren't going to say it publicly. They use code words like Bill saying we need an "integreated global community" in a speech, or Hillary will "write" a book saying "it takes a village".
There is a website that makes comparisons to Nazism and Communism and shows their common threads. As if that isn't enough Rex Curry on his website claims that Fascism/Nazism got its start in the USA. Here it is:
Also, Sawdust, I ask myself this: why would Mark Penn want to elect a socialist? Answer is: he wouldn't.
Do you often talk to yourself? Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
It's interesting the way the political process works. An old partner of mine has a son who was Bill Clinton's travel coordinator. He worked on both of Clintons campaigns, worked for Gore and then for Kerry. As reward for campaign work, he had eight years of travel all over the world, a fat salary and lots of influence.
If Penn thinks he hooked himself to a winner, he'll be rewarded handsomely down the road.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
err,,,go up the thread and see if I made a characterization of Hillary. Who's ridiculous?
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
Mikester posted: "The Global-Elite financed the Fascists as well as the Communists. Totalitarianism is a tool used by the Elites (Rockefellers, Rothschilds, the Royal Families of Europe) to keep people under control. It's been proven that Wall Street bought the Bolsheviks to power,and we all know about W's Grandfather Prescott BuSh financing Hitler."
Would make sense that Prescott Bush did business with the fascists, as he was one himself. But I don't think he financed Hitler; he made money by doing business with Hitler's government.
Armand Hammer had some contact with the nascent USSR (post 1922). But I defy you to documernt any capitalist dealings with the Bolsheviks prior to that.
"It's been proven that Wall St. brought the Bolsheviks to power"
Name one reputable history of the '05 and '17 revolutions that mentions anything at all about this. Oh yeah!- it's a plot (conspiracy)- that's why it's not in any serious history.
Perhaps you'd care to point to where I said that on this thread?
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
Sawdust: thank you for agreeing that she's not a socialist
Didn't say that, I just pointed out that I hadn't spoken about her on this thread.
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Posts: 8264 | Location: Fl | Registered: 05 July 2001
There is lots of evidence of the "shotgun marraige" between Capitalists and Communists, I'll attempt to "google-up' some information on this.
To BrentBoz-Hell: for now why don't you answer my guestions on my previous message, if you dare.
1.)If Capitalists hate Communists so much why are they enriching Red China? This is so obvious it is staring you in the face.
2.)What about America's financing of Fidel Castro? You can't think our government was so stupid that they didn't know? Why don't you answer these simple questions.
With all due respect B-B-H you've fallen into the trap most leftists fall into. They naively believe that Socialism/Communism is the "salvation of mankind" and that somehow Communism is a bulwark against evil capitalism, when in reality the capitalists were behind it all the time. I mean if you want to live in your leftist fantasy la-la land go ahead. Just think about the 100 million or so people that were killed under Communism. Living in a fantasy world is just too dangerous.
Read these two links and then come back and tell me that the Capitalists never financed the Communists!
Miketster posted: "2.)What about America's financing of Fidel Castro? You can't think our government was so stupid that they didn't know? Why don't you answer these simple questions."
Okay: let's bury this crap, once and for all.
Castro, when he was based in Mexico, prior to the 1956 Granma expedition, did do a tour of the U.S. in order to raise funds for the effort. Some donations were raised from private individuals.
The U.S. government has never, in any fashion, supported Castro. Ever heard of the embargo? Or the Torricelli legislation or Helms/Burton? Or the numerous attempts at economic sabotage that have been carried out at U.S. government behest against Castro's (Cuba's) government?
And as soon as Cuba announced its (modest) land reform in 1960, the U.S. cut off the sugar quota.
Please tell me how the U.S. has "financed" Castro?
As for the Bolsheviks/USSR: why don't you read Trotsky's bio of Lenin, for starters?
So, Let's see: you're saying Wall St. put the Bolsheviks into power, WHICH WOULD BE INTERESTING CONSIDERING THAT THE U.S. WAS ALLIED WITH THE TRIPLE ENTENTE IN WW1 AND LENIN'S PROGRAM WAS WITHDRAWAL FROM THE EASTERN FRONT AGAINST GERMANY!!! (excuse me for shouting, but you know, the obvious can be frustrating to state in a calm way).
The Bolshevik Revolution of Nov. (Oct. on our calendars) '17 was done on an absolute shoestring. They had no money (practically). They needed no money. What held the Revolution together, early on, was just the force of Lenin's taking charge.
And, in Trotsky's book, all kinds of good stuff about Lenin advocating imprisonment of capitalists (just for mere sake of demonstration of principles) and advocating fragging of Russian Imperial Army officers.
These are the facts as Trotsky has told them. He was there.
David Icke should be in a group home, taking zyprexa.
And just think, Mikester: tou can now go forth with the rest of your life free from the burdens of these terrible misconceptions. You have been directed toward the historical truth. This has got to help- you will no longer be wasting your time.
My main purpose in this exchange is to show a parallel between Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, and the present day USA. It should be obvious to anyone that this evil BuSh regime is assiduously building a police state. And the same people or same type of people (bankers,royal famalies of Europe) are behind the coming American police state.
Here are a few quotes from "None Dare Call it Conspiracy" That shows the bankrolling of the Bolsheviks by London and New York.
Schiff spent millions to overthrow the Czar and more millions to overthrow Kerensky. He was sending money to Russia long after the true character of the Bolsheviks was known to the world. Schiff raised $10 million, supposedly for Jewish war relief in Russia, but later events revealed it to be a good business investment. (Forbes, B. C., Men Who Are Making America, pp.334-5.)
According to de Goulevitch:
"Mr. Bakhmetiev, the late Russian Imperial Ambassador to the United States, tells us that the Bolsheviks, after victory, transferred 600 million roubles in gold between the years 1918 and 1922 to Kuhn, Loeb & Company [Schiff's firm
Radical movements are never successful unless they attract big money and/or outside support. The great historian of the Twentieth Century, Oswald Spengler, was one of those who saw what American Liberals refuse to see that the Left is controlled by its alleged enemy, the malefactors of great wealth. He wrote in his monumental Decline of the West (Modern Library, New York, 1945):
"There is no proletarian, not even a Communist, movement, that has not operated in the interests of money, in the direction indicated by money, and for the time being permitted by money — and that without the idealists among its leaders having the slightest suspicion of the fact.
Schiff spent millions to overthrow the Czar and more millions to overthrow Kerensky. He was sending money to Russia long after the true character of the Bolsheviks was known to the world. Schiff raised $10 million, supposedly for Jewish war relief in Russia, but later events revealed it to be a good business investment. (Forbes, B. C., Men Who Are Making America, pp.334-5.)
According to de Goulevitch:
"Mr. Bakhmetiev, the late Russian Imperial Ambassador to the United States, tells us that the Bolsheviks, after victory, transferred 600 million roubles in gold between the years 1918 and 1922 to Kuhn, Loeb & Company [Schiff's firm]."
If we can somehow ascribe Max Warburg's financing of Lenin to German "patriotism," it was certainly not "patriotism" which inspired Schiff, Morgan, Rockefeller and Milner to bankroll the Bolsheviks. Both Britain and
Hagedorn, Herman, The Magnate, John Day, N.Y. See also Washington Post, Feb. 2, 19f8, p. 195.)
America were at war with Germany and were allies of Czarist Russia. To free dozens of German divisions to switch from the Eastern front to France and kill hundreds of thousands of American and British soldiers was nothing short of treason
Posts: 19 | Location: Rockville,Maryland | Registered: 14 July 2007
Miketser posted: "Schiff spent millions to overthrow the Czar and more millions to overthrow Kerensky."
According to the book, "Great Jewish Men", by Elinor & Robert Slater, Schiff merely campaigned for abrogation of the trade treaty with Czarist Russia, over the issue of mistreatmemt of Jews. And the book says that when Kerensky took power, Schiff provided some assistance to that short-lived government (in total contradiction of what it says in the book Mikester references).
No mention in the Slaters' book of any contact with the Bolsheviks by Schiff.
So, I just doubt the story of the 600 million gold ruble transfer. Trotsky says there was practically no capital available in the years after the November Revolution.
Let's look at something which is indisputable: after the failed putsch of the July Days, Lenin and Trotsky had to go into hiding, under ignominious circumstances. They were living hand-to-mouth, waiting for the knock on the door. What evidence is there of any support of any powerful, wealthy person in these circumstances?
And let me say one more thing about Castro, lest my characterization of "some contributions from private persons" be misconstrued:
Castro's tour of the U.S. in 1955 consisted of speaking to Cuban-exile groups. They raised (a little) money by passing the hat! They might make a hundred dollars per meeting (maybe).
Fidel, reunited temporarily with son Fildelito during this tour, at one point had to admonish the boy for playing with the money: he shouted, "Stop that, Fidelito, that money belongs to Cuba!"
The boat they ended up purchasing for the expedition was a cheapie in poor condition.
Mikester also posted: "America were at war with Germany and were allies of Czarist Russia. To free dozens of German divisions to switch from the Eastern front to France and kill hundre
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